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May have found all the answers today....


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Can it be that vaccines and labor medication caused damage to a part of the brain and this in fact resulted in the symptoms coming to the surface?


I have asked myself again and again what I did differently with my second son. I have come down to slightly less intense prenatal care, and labor/delivery problems. The anesthesiologist (?) was very young and it was midnight....he numbed by upper body and had to start again....I recall seeing three and a half syringes during the epidural process! My blood pressure dropped very low and my son's heart rate cut in half towards the end of the delivery. They were going to take him C section, but his heart rate recovered and he was delivered soon after. He is now classified ADHD, tics, and is having trouble reading (LD, I think....but the school system tests him for 2 hours and makes the decision that he is not!!).


I have started researching the link between learning disabilities and reduced blood pressure/heart rate during delivery. I found a couple of articles. I looked at anesthesia and LD too, but didn't find too much. Now, the tics started after the most recent vaccine, and I also think that at one point in his younger shots they did a "makeup shot" with his normal scheduled shots.


SO, is there a link to some type of damage done to a specific portion of the brain? The nuerologist told me that LD/ADHD/and tics are all very related.....I recall some late night reading on basal ganglia damage and tics???? Are they all related to a certain portion of the brain....and if so, is it pure genetics that creates the symtoms.....or a combo of genetics and damage to brain cells????? Has anyone else looked at this before?

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I get the part about having (carrying) the gene and never showing symptoms...but what confuses me and what makes me think that it was indeed the shots that day is because....she went for 4 years with no signs or symptoms or anything. And then BAM right after the shots all the symtoms came. I guess what I am trying to say is that even if it were not the shots that brought it out...something else had to.

Or is there is a reason that this just shows up one day after having no signs for years??? maybe if she did not get the big WHACK to the immune...she would have just continued to be a carrier and never have symptoms????

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Do you think it is or could be possible that someone who has TS can only display OCD as a symptom and nothing else? Or only display ADHD and nothing else?? I hope I am making sense....sometimes I can't find the right words. My brain seems to be fried.



In answer to your question, someone who displays OCD and nothing else or ADHD and nothing else,

would not be diagnosed as having TS.


This is not to say that they don't carry a genetic vulnerability for TS!


The prevailing diagnostic criteria for TS include: onset before the age of 21, recurrent, involuntary,

rapid, purposeless motor movements affecting multiple muscle groups; one or more vocal tics, variations

in the intensity of the symptoms over weeks to months (waxing and waning), and a duration of more

than one year. These criteria are not absolute. There have been rare cases of TS that have emerged

later than 21. Also the concept of "involuntary" is hard to define, as some people experience their tics

as having a volitional component - an internal urge for motor discharge accompanied by psychological

tension and anxiety.....


Also, this diagnostic criteria does not adequately portray the full range of behavioural difficulties that

are very often observed in TS patients, such as compulsions, obsessions, and attentional problems.










Also I read the primary characteristic of TS is that it is a neurobiological

disorder stemming from the abnormal metabolism of a common chemical

neurotransmitters - dopamine, and also seratonin and norepinephrin.

ADD similarly stems from this abnormal metabolism, which is why you

often see people with TS who also have ADD and other co-morbid conditions

such as OCD.

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When my son was being diagnosed, and before he knew our family history, he said that OCD, ADHD and EPILEPSY are closely entwined. I'd never heard of the epilepsy theory... but of my 5 kids, 1 has TS, 2 have epilepsy and the other 2 have s form of OCD. I don't know what to make of that. I wonder if this could be a sign of them carrying the gene...



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When my son was being diagnosed, and before he knew our family history, he said that OCD, ADHD and EPILEPSY are closely entwined. I'd never heard of the epilepsy theory... but of my 5 kids, 1 has TS, 2 have epilepsy and the other 2 have s form of OCD. I don't know what to make of that. I wonder if this could be a sign of them carrying the gene...







For more information about how epilepsy and OCD are linked, read the following:





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Thanks for that Lynsey...


I did mean to add that the Dr said they were all entwined with eachother with the inclusion Tourettes.... all being on the same thing. It's funny as my 2 kids with epilepsy don't have one sign of OCD. The 2 with OCD don't have epilepsy. Then my son with TS has the OCD. I'm grateful that none of them ended up with the whole package.


That's what made me wonder if they could all have different symptoms coming out from basically the same gene or whatever it is. Each of these conditions are problems on their own and I know you can have one without the other, but knowing they're linked and having so much of it in one family... just makes me wonder more as to why?


Thanks again, it's a very interesting article.



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Okay I have WHACKED my brain over and over trying to find just ONE thing different from everyone else in my family who has kids with no signs of tics ect...

The only difference I can find is that I was the oldest when I had my daughter. Everyone else was alot younger than I when they started having children. Hmmmm....something else to think about now.



Also...in regards to the mentioning of epilepsy....my daughter has had two EEG's that read abnormal. Discharges and spikes from the right side of the brain....no one can tell us why and we have been told that the tics are not related at all.

Her EEG shows Partial complex seziure activity....the problem is that she has never had a seizure.

It was suggested to put her on Topamax in case the EEG reading is a indication of future seizures (precautionary)

We did this at a low dose and her tics went away....I wish one day to get to the bottom of it.

She is due for another EEG soon. I wonder if I had an EEG if it would read the same??? I used to stare into space alot and sometimes still do.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Myrose,


Although I do not post as often anymore I do try to pop in when I can and read posts. Your post interests me because I remember being where you are a few years ago...




My son had severe tics from onset at 5 years 4 months (I could tell you the day!) till around 8-9 ish and since being on azithromycin every 5 days for the past 3-4 years (it is important to write things down and journal because here I am years later and it seems like I cannot remember anything anymore...it is all a blur!!!)


My son also has severe learning disabilities which for obvious reasons have taken most of my energy and time in the last couple of years. I spent years wondering why! I know this is an absolutely obvious point but why have you been so focused on your side of the family...what about your daughters father and his family.


I can see how genes from BOTH sides of the family MAY have contributed to my son having learning disabilities and TS and PANDAS...or then again maybe not...who knows...I could give you a laundry list of ideas, it really is endless...


Complications during my pregnancy including hyperemesis, high blood pressure, I did eat healthy enough while pregnant, did not take enough vitamins (seriously I was way to sick!!!), too many ultrasounds, epidural...in terms of my son...allergies, food and environment, exposure to a pesiticide at age 5, immunizations, vit def, family hx of rheumatic fever on my on my fathers side of the family, autoimmune diseases on my husbands side of the family, a few ticcy relatives on my husbands side, nothing like my son though, I certainly can see PANDAS issues in myself as a kid, my brother has some milder learning disabilities, as I have learned more about learning disabilities I can see some in myself even though I did not struggle and have a university degree but compensated well,.....anyways, given enough time I could go on all night...


I guess what I am trying to say is that after going through all of this and after going through the grieving process, it does not really matter WHY anymore. It is what it is....


My other 3 kids are fine, my brother has 3 kids and no learning disabilities, my husband has a sister with 2 kids, a boy and a girl (the boy may show signs of a learning disability...certainly nothing nearly as severe as my son, and his sister was a bit ticcy last winter), his brother has 3 girls...all fine...


On my husbands side we do have a cousin whose son is also ticcy...


Who knows which second cousins etc of yours...may tic...


Obviously, you know what a tic looks like and probably can spot a kid a mile away with one...I know I can...but in your family history you are relying on your extended family acutally knowing what a tic is...my second son had a very transient tic for a few years in the fall, if it were not for my older son and his tics I would NEVER have known what my second son had was a tic!!! For that matter it did not happen this fall and seems to be gone.


Anyways, now I am feeling like I am starting to ramble...with time this all gets MUCH easier and the why does not really matter so much. Take care.



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Actually, when you think of what a fetus/baby is bombarded with these days, from inception and

then time of birth, it's amazing they don't have more health problems....


I too wrestled with the "why?" issue - can't tell you how many times I cried about this to my mother.

She kept saying to me, you are doing a fantastic job, they are two fantastic boys.....

I always felt better when she said that.....now they are young adults and I wish I

hadn't stressed like I did, but you can't help it

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