Fear of telling a lie

[JoyBop]

We have a strange and complex issue going on with DS. He has this fear of telling a lie to the point of either not answering any question directly, or even telling more lies to try to satisfy this fear. I suspect he's been stealing things from others and when people question him he lies. Then he tells the truth. Then he lies again and swears he knew nothing about it, he was just afraid he had done it. And this goes back and forth until he has no idea what the truth ever was or what happened. Its testing him apart but I feel like I can't just totally let it go as I don't want him to be stealing or even be putting himself in this awful scenario even if he didn't.

 

Two specific things happened this last week. The first happened at school where someone and a rice Crispy treat that went missing. DS told me this story and his he was set up. So done had planted the wrapper in his desk and his friend found it. He had a funny look on his face, the kind that gives you the inkling someone is not telling the truth. Then he admitted he did it, then he did t then he did then he didn't. Each time this went on it became more stressful and painful. The other episode was worse as it involved a siblings missing wallet and missing money when the wallet turned up in a bizarre place.

 

Has anyone dealt with this? Any advice on how to help? I have been telling him he's not in trouble if he tells the truth but this only adds to the pressure.

 

All of this as well as other awful OCD and anxieties have been running rampant since we discontinued low dose of Zoloft. That made him agitated and wacky. Now he is sweet and much more down to earth but suffering terribly. I feel like I can't win!

[Missmom]

I don't know how old your son is but maybe you could either have him write down these incidents or you could record him telling you what happened. That way you have it documented what his initial story was. It will keep him accountable to that story. The story cannot change in his mind because it is documented. If he tries to change the story tell him no, that is different from what the first story was. Let him know that the first story that he tells you is the only one you are going to believe and even if it is bad that it has to be the truth. As you said, by the end of it all maybe he does not even know the truth... This may help him not get confused about what he has told you. It should help him organize his thoughts.

 

I am not sure if what I am trying to say is making much sense, but I know that lying can be one of the hardest things to control with kids. He really needs to be held to what he says so the lying does not become a habit.

[JoyBop]

That is an interesting idea. Only in afraid that will put even more pressure and fear into him. But you may have a gods point about writing down all the different stories and we can review them after. He has a very difficult time answering any questions even the first time so if i put all that pressure on the first story he may never tell me anything again.

This is a tough one.

[Missmom]

I know it could backfire, but if maybe you ask him to make notes or if you make the notes initially. He needs to learn to keep all of the racing thoughts, worries, fears straight in his mind. I believe you when you say he does not even know the truth by the end of it all. The initial story should be confirmation to him. So even he does not think he is going crazy. My friend was married to a habitual liar. He convinced himself and everyone around him that they were crazy and not him. They are now going through an ugly divorce and he has been caught lying in court. The counselor has said that lying is one of the most difficult behaviors to correct, most counselors just don't even know where to begin.

Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

[qannie47]

My non pandas son went thru a phase of stealing and lying. I think your ds's issues is related to his ocd as you have already implied. I think that I would go with his first answer when he admits it. If he changes his story, I would explain to him that you will always go with his first answer (when he admits it), and tell him that the discussion is closed after that. Also, I found with my ds, I doled out the consequence and then let it go. I also gave him high praise for admitting a truth. Remember this phase too will pass.....

[3bmom]

We had something similar where my DS was afraid he would lie and also couldn't rationally discern between the two. It would then create stress and what I thought were tics but turned out to be compulsions.

 

Painful to see them suffer. We ended up with CBT and had improvement in a couple of sessions. This one I think is better with the experts.

 

Are all infections addressed? Everyone checked in the family? A Dr. Last week even had me do a vaginal swab for strep! First time asked. How is his diet? Every layer will help. My heart is with you.

[3bmom]

I forgot to add, probably because I want to forget but this lasted 6 weeks and during that time he stopped talking because it would throw him into tics. Never knew what set it off because they didn't test right and then our Dr let us go because we were "beyond their scope".

[JoyBop]

3B, thanks for the insight. Yes, I do believe obsessions are at play here. Yes, we have just done extensive bloodwork and all seems well. No elevated white blood count, ASO now back to normal range. Our infectious disease doc says he sees many PANDAS kids that have these flares without any known infections, but who knows? He was slightly anemic and are going for a GI workup tomorrow as there is a chance he has bleeding uclers again. (Had a lot of problems in past) Weve stopped Motrin for this reason.

 

I am going to address this with his therapist and psychiatrist. I am afraid to make him stick to the first one because I feel like I would be supporting the lie, if the first story werent the truth. In fact, I know none of his first stories were the truth. I think I would only be adding to the problem if I were to insist upon what he told me the first time. My approach for now, until I get some expert help, is to reassure him that he will never get in trouble for telling me the truth. Im trying not to put any added pressure on him so that he will trust that he can talk with me, bc he tends not to want to say anything when asked a question. I think if he is really stealing things, its also a compulsion. He is so afraid he "might" do it that he feels he has to. Then we get into this ritual of telling what did/didnt happen. This is really a tough one!!!

 

He is also ramped up on his fears of gum. We were in Boston Friday and he was hopping and tiptoing all around the side walks. At one point he got stuck on a square in the cement and couldnt move. He started screaming. I down played and and rushed him along as it was 17 degrees and the wind was blowing. Again, Im not sure how to handle these things. They have always been there, but never so debilitating on a "good" day. Maybe the Zoloft wasnt so bad after all?

[3bmom]

I think you are right not to pin him to anything. It is just another version of OCD. I use to have a huge OCD reference book for guidance since his was a moving target but one day I realized every medical and nutrition book had "disappeared. I also found OCD that was constantly shifting was more do to exposure ( immune system turned on) such as when we flew, sick sibling or friend and severe OCD an infection.

 

We are on sertraline for increase blood flow to frontal lobes. Our Dr uses a spect scan to show healing. He said it is a different classification than a psychotic and only prescribes after infection and diet is addressed. This was about 4 months into treatment. We have been stable for two years and now only see slight irritability for 24 hours due to a pizza or something at a friends house.

[JoyBop]

3b I would live a book like you mention about OCD. I never thought about it, but DS OCD is definitely a moving target! Something occurs for a week or more and then it disappears and we are on to the next.

 

I'm fascinated by the use of a scan to determine OCD! Sertraline is the generic Zoloft. We just took him off of it to prepare him for the study at the NIH. We now realize that just 12.5 mg which is all he could handle without flying off the deep end, really did take the edge of his symptoms. Unfortunately the side effects were at least as bad as the original symptoms so I'm not sure I can resume the Sertraline. abilify is next on the list. If that fails we might have to go it alone.