Toxoplasma & Bartonella

[nicklemama]

The toxoplasma eggs are found in the feces of cats. That's how you get toxoplasmosis.....changing the litter box or otherwise somehow ingesting the eggs. Most people have been exposed to toxoplasma in their lives. When you are a child you play outside in sand, sand boxes, dirt, etc.... And any animal that has toxoplasma has 'planted' the eggs. Cats get it from eating infected rodents. That's the life cycle. So whether or not you have had cats in your life, you quite possibly have had toxoplasma and didn't know it.

 

Indoor only cats are much less likely to infect you with toxoplasma but you are still at risk for infection. Eliminating rodents, which is not going to happen, would stop the spread of toxoplasma.

[nicklemama]

Cat scratch fever is caused by Bartonella henslae. You get it by being bitten or scratched by a cat. Cats get it from fleas. It's also found in ticks. From what I read, kittens are more likely to transmit bartonella than adult cats. Adult cats own immune systems usually rid the cat of the infection.

 

I have 3 indoor cats. I would urge everyone not to go and dump your cat.

[Mary wag]

I took parasitology in college too:). Loved it. In fact researching lymes in San Diego and found article my favorite professor wrote 1990 about lymes in San Diego. Hmmmm no lymes here right!!

 

We last year, at the beginning of our journey with my dd, went to a women that did live blood analysis. She said dd had toxo. Get rid of all cats:(. Got bloodwork done that says no toxo. Is there another better test to do?

Her only symptom left is intrusive thoughts once day about 1 to 2 minutes.

 

Still have my cats. Had them all tested through galaxy labs.. Negative. For bart. Thought about keeping outside only.

I have floaters too. Had them long time. Worked for vet 7 years. Maybe I had toxo?

Mary

[SSS]

Right, sorry, again, not saying send the kitties off- and Dr. Kling. comments are sometimes extremely opinionated for what he's thinking at the time-

 

Not having a memory of tick bite or EM rash is VERY common, and I spent my youth and 20's hiking ALL the time-

my cat story- lived in a Bay Area town that was backed up to mountains/dense woods, on an inlet, used to be an old fishing village,

huge population of feral cats-

Mama cat and tiny kittens I spotted, they were WILD- took me weeks, food, coaxing, but those little kittens were cute buggers-

scratched and bit picking up.

 

People can hold Lyme and co. in their bodies for years, not realizing, then sometimes the immune system takes a 'hit'

(having a baby, major stress, etc.)

and symptoms emerge, no longer can be ignored. Or, just feeling like junk all the time or in a state of high anxiety is what 'normal' is to you-

 

But, the shock and PTSD of Lyme and co treatment, transmission- changes people. Hiking and cats, dogs, I have given up.

I know pets give a tremendous amount of pleasure and love in people's lives- and, that a piece, too, in life.

[nicklemama]

S&S, you have hit on a topic near and dear to me and I have struggling thoughts about lately. I think its a good conversation. We are outdoorsy people. I've spent my entire life camping, hiking, biking, canoeing, skiing(water and snow), etc..... I've always had pets and currently have 3 cats and a dog.

 

We went camping recently and for the first time, I had thoughts about considering giving it up. I've also been considering not having any more pets when the current batch pass away. My cats are seniors now. It would drastically change my life/lifestyle. Not sure I'll go through with it but I am certainly giving it thought these days. My son has tick born infections and PANS. It has had such a huge impact on our lives, its made me reconsider things.

[T_Anna]

Does anyone know if toxoplasmosis is something a vet routinely checks or do we need to bring them in for it?

 

We have two cats and they have been DS's motivation to get up and walk around the house looking for them. We live on the 5th floor of an apartment, so they have never been outside. We got them both as kittens from a reputable shelter, but they were rescues so there is still a slight chance.

 

Of course we live in NYC and my kids grew up in city playground sandboxes. We even have a picture of DS as a toddler eating the sand (and we SAW the rats that would come through if we hung out too late)...ughh!

 

T.Anna

[SSS]

S&S, you have hit on a topic near and dear to me and I have struggling thoughts about lately. I think its a good conversation. We are outdoorsy people. I've spent my entire life camping, hiking, biking, canoeing, skiing(water and snow), etc..... I've always had pets and currently have 3 cats and a dog.

We went camping recently and for the first time, I had thoughts about considering giving it up. I've also been considering not having any more pets when the current batch pass away. My cats are seniors now. It would drastically change my life/lifestyle. Not sure I'll go through with it but I am certainly giving it thought these days. My son has tick born infections and PANS. It has had such a huge impact on our lives, its made me reconsider things.

 

*It is an interesting topic, I have seen it discussed before among Lyme folks, and obviously, there is no right or wrong answer!

I remember in Pamela Weintraub's book when she said they sold their house, and she moved the family to a concrete high rise condo in a city.

I have heard Lyme people say: My dog (or owning a dog or cat) brings me so much joy, happiness, there is no way I'll go without-

I'll spray the yard, Frontline collar them, and if I have to pull off a tick, okay.

I coincidentally haven't owned any pets since the feral outside cats adventure- with a career and kids coming along, it felt like too much responsibility.

My older DS has asked for a cat for years. I've held my ground. Ironically, my youngest checked out a kitten book and just this morning explained how we could get one, take it to the vet for claw removal, said she'd take care of litter box (uh-huh). So I'm the Scrooge. But never say never. *sigh*

I'm content to walk my sidewalks in my neighborhood and contemplate the large oaks and flowers in the yards for my commune with nature, but I can't go hiking anymore- I would think of nothing else but ticks. Maybe crazy, but my truth.

My older DS goes on fishing trips with his Dad- so, I implored to both about tick safety, and off they go-I don't control everything, lol.

Luckily, my current husband has never been a camper or hiker- so no loss here-

it's for sure a personal decision. But for lower immune challenged folks, good reminder that the pets may affect you/ or need care to stay healthy themselves (and the worm issue- ye-gads.)

[nicklemama]

Cats are generally asymptomatic for toxoplasmosis. Cats in a high rise NY apartment are not at risk of getting new toxo infections. I will hav e to look it up and see if they are carriers or if they kick the infection.

[nicklemama]

"Although people can be infected through contact with cat feces, the far more common way for someone to have contact with the parasite that causes toxoplasmosis is through unhygienic handling of raw or undercooked meat, drinking contaminated water and exposure to garden soil or sandboxes where infected cats may have defecated. People do not get the disease through direct contact with the cat himself."

 

Just found this at ASPCA.org

 

It also said that cats only shed the eggs for about two weeks after the infection. After that time, their immune systems rid them of the disease. Indoor cats would not be exposed to toxoplasmosis unless they were killing and eating mice coming in from outside or bringing in an actively infected catm they could get it from the shared litter box.

[SSS]

What have you, hooked up with my kids for the hard sell on getting an indoor cat? ;-).

 

Just kidding, good information!

[philamom]

Timely post. I am about to purchase a kitten (possibly tomorrow). I've been putting it off since my two cats died a few years ago. My daughter was in a terrible flair at the time, and it was very traumatic for her. Since then we found we are dealing with pandas, lyme and bartonella, so I've been really afraid to get another cat. But, both my daughter and I really miss the company of an indoor kitty. Will run testing though - suggestions?

Edited August 23, 2013 by philamom

[nicklemama]

I explain to the vet your child has immune issues and have them test for toxoplasmosis. I don't think you have go into details.

[tu4four]

Wow. Interesting. Three of my children have had this weird eye thing like someone mentioned. Can't tell for sure about floaters, etc., but when my most affected dd11 was born she had a very red, inflamed looking red vein in her eye. Eventually went away. But sometimes it comes back. And she is usually "different" when it does. Same thing with my son. I do not like cats. I am allergic to them, and I really don't like them since our neighbor feeds several of them and they come over to lay around in our flower beds and on our cars. I am certain they are using our landscaping as a litter box. Is toxoplasmosis something that is treated with standard lyme abx....azithro, cefdinir, bactrim, etc? I'll be mentioning that to our doc when I talk to him on the third.

[LNN]

Tu4four - toxoplasmosis is treated with antimalarials and abx. You may find that some of the things your DD is on would also be appropriate for toxo. But you may also want to discuss with your LLMD how aggressive her current treatment is. It might be that it's too much too soon. Maybe a lesser dose of things, or a pulsing schedule (some days on medications, with some days off, in a rotaing schedule) may be helpful.