Hydrochloric Acid/Enzymes

[Giselle]

Hi there, as Hoyt seems to require more and more B6 (or P5P) the doctor recommended that we try some hydrochloric Acid and Enzymes to hopefully get him digesting more of his food and hopefully not require as many vitamins - in essence help him to get more from his food and relying less on the vitamin therapy. Has anyone done this? Heard of this? I saw Orthomolecular talk about enzymes so would love your imput but HCL? It seems like the stuff from mad scientist movies!!! I remember some silly T.V. show where they poured a beaker of stomach acid on the top story of a house and it ate through each subsequent floor - I just have that image in my head Yikes - "here Hoyt, try this, nope don't worry about that hole through your tummy, it's just a flesh wound."

 

Thanks,

Giselle

[Guest]

Giselle,

 

My doctor has me on a lot of b6 & p5p to based on my recent lab results. My total intake of B6 including p5p, b-complex, and other supplements containing it is 285 mg (for those of you reading this, the amount I take is guided by my doctor and my lab tests-always work with a doctor for your amounts). I was really nervous about this much, but I do fine on it.

 

My doctor has me supposed to be taking Betaine HCL also. I haven't gotten a chance to add it yet because there's several other supplements I have to add also. I'll let you know my thoughts about it after I start it. I'd like to hear how Hoyt does with it too. I'd also love some imput on HCL from Orthomolecular.

 

Carolyn

[Chemar]

hi

HCL occurs naturally in our GIT as it is the acid that is produced by our tums to aid digestion.

 

Here is a real simple primer on it

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/digestivep...ms/a/LowHCL.htm

 

It has to be used with caution as too much is not good either

[orthomolecular]

I HAD low stomach acid because of my deficiencies. But because of the supplements I take now, like nicotinic acid and pyrdixine HCL, I don't use those supplements anymore. I stopped taking the HCL supplements shortly after I started supplmenting for pyroluria.

 

I was having problems with too much acid a while back. I was burping after meals, feeling this pressure build up if I ate a heavy (high fat and protein) meal and ocassionaly acid reflux. But the bi-carb, I think, really helped with that, especially the burping and the pressure build up after heavy meals.

 

If the deficiencies are being treated than I don't think low acid may be the problem. One thing that is overlooked is the pancreas producing bi-carbonate. Without enough bi-carbonate by the pancreas the enzymes produced by his pancreas will not work. (Plant based enzymes are not supposed to need the precise ph to work, but animal derived enzymes do need the right ph level.)

 

In Brain Allergies, Philpott and Kalita talk about using enzymes and bi-carbonate for those with pyroluria (or a severe b6 and zinc deficiency). I had a problem with the prydixine not working for me a while back. This problem was corrected by enzymes. I think that the synthetic form of b6 does not get converted if your pancreas is not producing the enzymes it is supposed to. (Or, if the pancrease doesn't produce bi-carb then the enzymes produced may not work because of the wrong ph in the GI tract.)

 

I sometimes use the Source Natrol's Coenzymated B6, which is the P-5-P form in sublingual tablet. This product is called "coenzymated" which I think helps to make the case that the synthetic form will only be converted with the right enzymes.

 

I think if pyridoxine is not working and it seems like he needs more p-5-p then his body is not able to convert the synthetic form into the active form. Enzymes will correct this problem, but you do need to use some bi-carbonate. I use Alka-Aid (tablets) by Vitaline Formulas. (The only other bi-carb I know about is Alka-Selxer but that contains aspirin too for some reason I don't understand.)

 

I used those betaine HCL supplements for several years and think they are a big waste of money. They can't put any kind of acid into a capsule because the acid would destroy the gelatin capsule. They make the acid pretty inert (by adding the betaine), so I would take as many as 25 of the high potency capsules for my lunch. Those supplements are not that effective. I think vinegar might be better than those supplements, if you think low acid is the problem. I was spending around $75 a month on that stuff before I corrected my deficiencies. I am so glad I don't have to waste my money on those betaine HCL supplements anymore. Even after using 25 capsules for my lunch I still would not get that warm sensation in my stomach, which indicates that they are working.

 

I think enzymes would be a better idea than those betaine HCl supplements. And do not forget the importance of a bi-carbonate too.

 

But anyone with pyroluria, or other severe deficiencies of nutrients that play a role in digestion may need to supplement HCL. Yes, this is possible but if those deficiencies are being treated then I doubt the HCL is needed. The synthetic form of b6 will produce stomach acid, but this is not the only nutrient involved. Nicotinic acid on an empty stomach will increase acid levels. Nicotinic acid supplements can have the same effect as being injected with histamine in your muscle. This injectinon is how they trigger acid production in the stomach to do the Hiedleburg Capsule test. There are tests like the Hiedleburg Capsule or putting something down the throat to scoop out some stomach contents but I have never had those tests. The Hiedleburg is not equipment most doctors have.

 

But I think that if eating protein especially is a problem then enzymes with bi-carbonate would be a better way to go (if you supplementing the needed nutrients too). And if the b6 doesn't seem to be working then I think enzymes may help that too.

 

But instead of trying to figure out how much of those HCL capsules may be needed you might consider using some vinegar instead (temporarily), because it may be needed for only a short time if the deficiencies are being corrected.

 

I think if the synthetic form of b6 is not working (or more p-5-p is needed) then this can be a sign that enzymes are needed.