blood thinning supplement

[philamom]

My daughter has been having issues with her veins lately. Actually since September. She never used to have any problem with blood draws and infusions - was even told all the time what great veins she had - easy patient. I could put emla cream on and leave it on for an hour, still with no difficulty. Now she constantly needs to be pricked several times, sometimes in both arms. It doesn't make a difference who does it. I can't use the emla more than 15 minutes.

 

I recall that lyme can thicken the blood, right? At one time I was taking Rechts Regulat. I think it helps the blood to flow better, but it was very strong tasting and I know my daughter wouldn't tolerate it. Is there any other products that would be helpful? thx

[fightingmom]

Pretty sure I recall reading that Lyme is able to cause inflammation or disorders of the actual blood vessels. I'll see if I can find that.

[LNN]

Hard to find veins have always meant my kids or I were dehydrated. So that's one thing to consider. I think nattokinase is used in lyme for thick blood issues.

[philamom]

Hard to find veins have always meant my kids or I were dehydrated. So that's one thing to consider. I think nattokinase is used in lyme for thick blood issues.

Definitely not due to dehydration (she drinks a lot). I will look into the nattokinase - thanks.

[fightingmom]

I can't find the article I read about the vascular issue, but came across this thread and I think it may help you:

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13599

[SSS]

I had been using the Boluke by Researched Nutritionals (Dr. B's line of supps)

On the website, there are published studies on Boluke, which is why I picked this brand, despite the extra cost.

Believed to help the antibiotics penetrate deeper.

I was on 1 cap, 2x a day, for some months, and am now off because I am on a doozy of a new protocol.

[SSS]

Sorry, ETA:

 

It is actually spelled Boluoke, and the maker is Canada RNA.

It is on Researched Nutritionals website with the studies, I believe you can order it from Amazon, or Forrest Health website - call for the code if purchasing from there.

[rowingmom]

Just found this on BetterHealthGuy:

 

http://betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/163-klinghardt-conferece-lyme-and-other-chronic-infections

 

David Berg is an expert in the area of hypercoagulation and is with AZ Coagulation Services in Phoenix, AZ. He shared the importance of looking at blood hypercoagulation in the treatment of chronic illnesses.

 

His premise was that "the chronically ill patients have a coagulation regulatory protein defect" and that this may be the difference between those that get bit by an infected tick and recover completely and those that remain chronically ill and never recover.

 

He asked, "How hard is it to start a car in Minnesota in the winter with 50 weight oil?". Thicker blood supports the microorganisms as it creates an anaerobic environment with reduced oxygen.

 

He estimated effectiveness of various natural agents for hypercoagulation at:

 

50% - Bromelain

60% - Wobenzym

70% - Serrapeptase

80% - Nattokinase

95% - Lumbrokinase

 

Garlic, Vitamin E, Fish Oils, and K2 may be helpful in regulating the coagulation system. Avocado is the highest source of Vitamin K.

 

Heparin is an agent that has been useful for many people dealing with hypercoagulation

[philamom]

Thank you all. I read in the link that Dr. Kling feels all patients with chronic lyme should be taking Lumbrokinase (boluke). Anyone using it on their children? Any negatives with boluke or nattokinase?

[sf_mom]

Yes, we've been using Bolouke along with biosil drops (other enzymes previously of Interfase Plus - Klaire Labs) for 1 1/2 years now.... to help thin blood and to treat biofilm's.

 

I also question if hypercoagulation isn't just biofilm's in the blood. As we were preparing to take older DS down and off antibiotics we ran a bunch of lab work back in Feb. One of the test we ran was the Fry Lab Biofilm Test. We found after a 1.3 years of treating biofilm's our older DS still had 'substantial' biofilms in his blood. We have now added surfactant to bolouke protocol. We are definitely seeing an increase in symptoms along with treatment. It was very frustrating to feel like we were nearing the end of treatment only to discover this information but I am relieved to be treating more aggressively and getting at some of these very stubborn infections. As we've all learned biofilm's can harbor almost any infection/virus so busting them up or getting at infection inside is critical to long term successful treatment. Our son's bacterial load is definitely way down and most days he seems like a perfectly normal child to the outside world. Even with aggressive treatment of daily tindamax (20 weeks - recently stopped) and biofilm treatment closing the gap towards consistent full recovery has been an extremely slow and arduous process. I believe the need to treat biofilms more aggressively has set us back at least by a year in our treatment plan. I encourage everyone to explore treating biofilm's with their LLMDs.

 

Currently, with the combination of lab work and ART testing our older DS appears to still be dealing with Lyme, Mycoplasma, Babesia (One LLMD feels its gone, One LLMD feels its hanging on by a thread), HHV6 and Coxsackies.

 

Philamon: If you should move forward with Bolouke keep in mind it treats biofilms and therefore could be an unleashing of infections. Unfortunately, its a double edged sward.... treatment can mean more symptoms. Off forum there have been some huge regression when kids have started tindamax daily (also treats biofilms) and biofilm protocols. Wishing you all the best as you move forward. Would love to hear if you come up with any other 'blood thinning' remedies other than the ones already listed.

 

Edit: There are plenty of comments online about the Fry Lab Tests... some questioning the lack of peer review studies on tests. In light of results we choose to error on side of caution and treat biofilms more aggressively. Regardless of "testing" I still believe biofilms are an issue for many of our children.

Edited May 4, 2012 by SF Mom

[philamom]

Thank you SF Mom for your response. Uggh - I was so hoping to hear the treatment brings instant relief with no regression whatsoever (ok, banging my head now). I think I need to hold off a little before adding something that may increase symptoms. I just got my daughter back to school for 5 hours a day - If I lose that, I'm pretty sure some official will be at my doorstep the next day. We have an appt. with her LLMD soon, so I will bring it to his attention. I may pm you for more information on the test.

 

Always thinking of you and your family!!

[sf_mom]

I like the thought of instant relief with no regression too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think some of this stuff.... cyst busting, biofilm treatment can wait until the active infections have been dealt with and load is way down. BUT, as you know, it does need to be 'eventually' addressed. I was paralyzed by the thought of starting my younger DD on daily tindamax and she is surprisingly doing overall much better even though she has had some very intense moments of frustration that thankfully are short lived. You may remember, she has suffered from fairly severe Livedo Reticularis over her entire body and up to her cheeks... I also picture this symptom to be a by product of 'thick blood' and the medium blood veins swell as a result (I have no idea if this perspective is correct or not). The tindamax seems to be helping with the rash. In June, we will rotate from tindamax to biofilm treatment and eventually back to daily tindamax in July and I am keeping my fingers/toes crossed that her response isn't too bad. I am getting microbe war weary and don't enjoy any regressions either. It truly a balancing act of treatment.

[philamom]

Yes, I know we would all like to see that. I was being cynical-sorta funny (or not so funny) I think your perspective is correct regarding the Livedo Reticularis. Hopefully, you'll see continued progress with the Tindamax. Stay strong! Btw- amazing doctors you have.

[rowingmom]

My daughter started out with Bolouke TID, InterFase and InterFase Plus daily when she began treatment last April and has remained on these with her combinations of abx ever since - we have not used any surfactants though (actually never heard of them used to treat lyme biofilm. I'm obviously falling behind. Will have to check this out). We started tindamax this afternoon and I have been holding my breath, but after 4 hours everything seems OK.

[philamom]

My daughter started out with Bolouke TID, InterFase and InterFase Plus daily when she began treatment last April and has remained on these with her combinations of abx ever since - we have not used any surfactants though (actually never heard of them used to treat lyme biofilm. I'm obviously falling behind. Will have to check this out). We started tindamax this afternoon and I have been holding my breath, but after 4 hours everything seems OK.

Wait til Sunday