Is this a herx?

[susie]

How do you decide if symptoms in a child are herxing or just the Lyme going crazy? My DD7 is on Azithromycin and Augmentin daily, and tinidazole on the weekends. Also a long list of supplements for detox and probiotics. So far, the only diagnosis is Lyme, no co-infections.

Her main symptoms are/have been tics, OCD, anxiety, defiance, rage, anger, night awakenings, nightmares, and tummy pains. She's been on this combo of meds for several months now and most of the above symptoms have been about 90% better. I've noticed a pattern after her weekend tindimax where the tics will come back very mildly for 2-3 days and her other symptoms also come back in a much milder form than before treatment.

This past weekend we increased from 4 weekend doses of tindimax to 6 total doses (3 days). Her tics this week have been much worse and she's been having night awakenings again. Strangely, the other symptoms didn't seem too bad this week until this a.m.. She awoke in a good mood, then about 1 hour after getting up started getting very anxious about what clothes she was to wear today (much of her past OCD revolved around clothing). We got through that, then in the car she had a sudden and very short lived pain on the left side of her head. I asked several times if she was O.K., and she was (quite grumpy by now though).

As I write this I'm thinking herx, but I still find it hard to swallow that there are no symptoms of fever/malaise from the Lyme biotoxins. Any ideas? Should I skip this weekends tindimax?

Our LLMD is out until next wednesday. I've got a call in to him, but I'm not sure I'll hear back before next week.

[philamom]

The tindamax causes a lot of herxing in our case. My daughter takes it weekends only. I recently stopped it for 2 weekends and only one day on Easter weekend -- when she started back on it we really had an increase of the same symptoms you mention. btw, it screams Bartonella to me--especially with the tummy pains. You may want to check the Bartonella titer with Specialty Lab (division of Quest lab). They have a more specific test.

 

You may want to do 2 days this weekend until you speak with the llmd. Our doctor said if my daughter herxed too bad we could take it down to one day's dose, but not to make a habit of it.

Edited May 6, 2011 by philamom

[sptcmom]

I agree with Philamom. Herxing should be tolerated if tolerable and motrin helps for symptomatic relief.

Decreasing one dose is no big deal.I wouldn't skip entirely. Some times a slight decrease will solve the problem. It will just take longer.Go ahead and decrease one and if that helps keep it at that and explain to your LLMD. As long as blood levels of the meds are maintained you are good. As long as the child is stable, functional and making progress, its all good.

If your child isn't adding on symptoms its probably a herx. Fever isn't with all herxes. Tindamax herxs are bad. The cysted lyme doesn't go down without a huge fight.

Im sure you have drainage remedies in your mix which are crucial with herxing.

Jodie

Edited May 7, 2011 by sptcmom

[LNN]

Jodie,

Can you explain "drainage" vs. detox? Does drainage refer to kidney detox? Thanks,

Laura

[sptcmom]

Jodie,

Can you explain "drainage" vs. detox? Does drainage refer to kidney detox? Thanks,

Laura

 

Detox is adding external detox agents to help soak up additional toxins. The body already has an innate mech to do this as we know but needs help during herxes and chronic abx /antimicrobial usage.

 

Drainage is the actual outgo of these bound toxins- sweat, urine, poop, vomit.

 

Drainage organs- lymph, skin, intestines, kidneys, capillaries at cellular level and venous channels.

 

Cellular drainage is often choked in chronic illness or a toxic illness like Lyme/Pandas. MANY many children on purely conventional meds with no holistic support have relapses or never really seem to get better.Then they come to my practice and I have to begin at the beginning with stopping meds, ART and detox and drainage. These children have responded very well to drainage enhancement along with lyme entrainment and autoimmune desensitization with immune system reducation remedies to tone down the autoimmune /Pandas aspect of all this.

 

If cell drains are choked (capillaries), there is cell toxicity and disrupts the entire ATP, mitochondrial activity which is the basis of everyday life. Of thriving, of growing and of extracting nourishment from what we eat. This send the body into autonomic sympathetic system overdrive and intrun vase vagal reflex issues, child will not eat, can't eat, and other herxes develop.

Important to note-

The herxes can mimic exposure because they will stay on longer if drainage is choked and get worse or add on symptoms which makes less experienced parents or practitioners think its an exposure, they up meds, change meds and the child often crashes since the body is already not handling the meds too well.

 

Gut dysbiosis can result in reabsorption of these toxins and pumps them back into into circulation if drainage is indequate.The soakers will do their job but doesn't really work without drainage.

 

Drainage remedies are seperate from detox supplements. These help the drainage organs work more efficiently.

 

here is a helpful link to understanding the drainage system

 

http://www.crossroads.ws/CRActive/overcoming_toxemia.htm

 

Jodie

[sf_mom]

Jodie... As you know, I've been detox, detox, detox, detox and mega detox person but you've just added to my level of understanding. Thanks for posting on drainage.

 

I would also like to have a good discussion on PH Balances here in the near future Acidic/Alkaline bodies. I believe Dr. Corson also ascribes to this philosophy due to her recommendation of specific waters and diets. Anyway... when time allows.

 

My own experience with Tindamax is truly a love/hate relationship. They are currently pulsing treatment with me... 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off. I just started again and within 8 hours I was herxing horribly. I actually had to lock myself in our bedroom closet because I was so noise sensitive 'YES I WAS HIDING FROM MY KIDS'. The next morning I woke up with raging headaches. I am other than myself for the first couple of days but then I trend better and better. No fevers or malaise just headaches of all types, moody, noise sensitive.... very much like PMS symptoms for me. Tindamax is also an anti-parasitic aspects and will help treat Babesia if its an issue and why I eventually feel better on it then off.

 

 

-Wendy

Edited May 7, 2011 by SF Mom