"Inappropriate" Behavior

[airial95]

Okay, this one isn't easy to ask advice for, but here goes. It anyone is going to be understanding, it will be people here!

 

I'm aware that certain types of OCD can result in inappropriate thoughts/behavior. My 3 1/2 year old PANDAS son caught strep again in mid February, we caught it quickly, he's on full strength Cefdinir (90 day course at this point). For the most part he's bouncing back fairly well from this one, and the episode itself was mild in comparison to previous episodes.

 

Anyway, we've always had clothing "issues". I put that in quotes because even my non-PANDAS daughter has always had an issue keeping clothes on. I just have two future nudists in my house or something. We normally can keep this under some control, but during exacerbation, it's always been harder to keep clothes on my son. And to be honest, sometimes it's a battle we choose not to fight.

 

This time around, we noticed he's grabbing himself alot. We noticed it early on in the exacerbation, and thought he had to go to the bathroom (which wasn't a stretch because of the whole frequent urination thing). So if we saw him holding himself, we'd send him to go potty. (Which would ultimately end up in a pantsless child running through my house.)

 

As this episode has gone on, this behavior has become more and more prevalent, to where he is CONSTANTLY touching himself - whether he has clothes on or not.

 

I understand that this is somewhat normal developmental behavior at this age, and all kids go through it. Heck – he’s found a new toy and wants to see what it can do. But he seems to be taking it to an extreme. It's NON-STOP.

 

I brought it up to the therapist a couple of weeks ago, and she told me it was developmentally normal, not PANDAS, and not to worry and asked how we were dealing with it. (Telling him it’s not polite to do that in front of others, that if he has to touch himself there he should do it when he’s in the bathroom or bedroom – trying not to make him feel bad about it or that it’s wrong – just that there is a time and a place for everything – and the dinner table is not it!).

 

This weekend though, my husband - who initially agreed with the therapist - even was chalking it up to PANDAS behavior. Heck – I figure if a man agrees that this is excessive, I’m not just imagining it!!

 

What really got me convinced that this is PANDAS related was yesterday he was having a meltdown about his beverages (he’s begun hoarding beverages, we’re working on it in therapy right now – hence meltdown), and he stood/flailed in the kitchen for about 40 minutes (short by our normal standards) and did not stop touching himself during the duration of the meltdown – it really was as if he didn’t even realize it was happening.

 

I should say, it’s not like he’s doing it for fun, it’s really almost subconscious, like someone biting their nails or twirling their hair – just something to do with your hands.

 

So – anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this? We’ve obviously been trying to force him to wear at least underwear at all times (lots of fun meltdowns there), continue with our positive redirection, and last night in a fit of exasperation – I told him that if he really felt he HAD to touch himself there in company, he should clap his hands instead (don’t know why I chose that, it just came out.) That didn’t help, but later that night my husband was redirecting him – again – and my son responded with “Mommy says I should clap my hands instead of touch my wee wee” My husband agreed, although later he gave me a quizzical look – hey – it was all I could think of at that moment.

 

Well, he has not yet clapped his hands (we would praise him mightily if he did!!) but he listened to what I said and seemed to acknowledge it. But it hasn't slowed his touching.

 

Any suggestions from others who have dealt with anything like this – or am I alone on this one?

[MomWithOCDSon]

Maybe this is just another manifestation of the heightened sensory stuff some of our kids get in exacerbation? But I suppose if you don't find a way to help him contend with it in a socially-appropriate way, it might become a habit.

 

Not to make a joke out of your dilemma, but maybe you could just dress him in a baseball uniform for a couple of weeks 'til this urge of his dies down or he moves on to some other behavior. Seems we're all used to seeing that particular gesture on the "diamond".

[peglem]

Well, I know its different with boys, but still think you should rule out a UTI or yeast infection.

[SSS]

I thought possible yeast as well, with the start of a new, stronger antibiotic.

[Malke]

I thought possible yeast as well, with the start of a new, stronger antibiotic.

 

My first thought was yeast, as well.

[LNN]

Well, I loved Nancy's approach, but since you can't get underwear on him, can't see a uniform going over well... We too had "naturalists" in the house long after other respectable preschoolers were expected to be fully clothed. So a large part of what you have on your hands may be a combo of age-appropriate, family norms (for our kids, it was just no big deal and we didn't make a big deal out of it so long as they didn't run out into the front lawn...), and sensory/OCD stuff. Considering all the really bad behaviors that can come with Pandas, I'd try to be laid back about this one. Now school-aged, neither of my kids would be caught dead being seen naked. They outgrew it on their own. My son still has his "favorite toy" and will sometimes absent-mindedly forget that others are sitting on the couch next to him, but he turns an appropriate shade of pink when you bring it to his attention.

 

The one "helpful" comment I have - or at least it's meant to be helpful - is that if you think there's any chance his body is still ridding itself of an infection, you might want to look into detox ideas (PM me or post on the lyme board or google). When DS started lyme treatment, our LLMD had him start on some detox things that helped his brain fog. Recently, some "Pandas-like" behaviors returned that we hadn't seen in awhile, and they got much worse when we changed his abx combo and he herxed. So we added additional detox support (in his case, milk thistle but you can't use this if you're allergic to ragweed) and it's notable how his behaviors will subside in a short time (not go away immediately, but get better - like they can get better with motrin). Over a week or so, some behaviors have reduced significantly. So just a thought. If he's still killing bacteria, maybe detox would help things settle down quicker.

[smartyjones]

I'm aware that certain types of OCD can result in inappropriate thoughts/behavior. My 3 1/2 year old PANDAS son caught strep again in mid February, we caught it quickly, he's on full strength Cefdinir (90 day course at this point). For the most part he's bouncing back fairly well from this one, and the episode itself was mild in comparison to previous episodes.

 

This time around, we noticed he's grabbing himself alot. We noticed it early on in the exacerbation, As this episode has gone on, this behavior has become more and more prevalent, to where he is CONSTANTLY touching himself - whether he has clothes on or not.

 

But he seems to be taking it to an extreme. It's NON-STOP.

I brought it up to the therapist a couple of weeks ago, and she told me it was developmentally normal, not PANDAS, and not to worry and asked how we were dealing with it.

 

This weekend though, my husband - who initially agreed with the therapist - even was chalking it up to PANDAS behavior. Heck – I figure if a man agrees that this is excessive, I'm not just imagining it!!

 

I should say, it's not like he's doing it for fun, it's really almost subconscious, like someone biting their nails or twirling their hair – just something to do with your hands.

 

Any suggestions from others who have dealt with anything like this – or am I alone on this one?

 

i do actually think this is a pandas behavior. my son did something like this but with other more extreme issues as well. i believe we "cured" it with a homeopathic remedy. i'm not sure where it fits in with pandas -- impulse control, comfort for anxiety, obsessive, tic-like -- i don't know what area of the brain it would be, but i definitely think it can be a pandas behavior as much as any other.

 

for my ds, with initial onset, he had his hands in his pants a lot -- not doing anything, just in his pants. i also thought it could be yeast etc. for a very short time, he'd also do a quick pants pull-down. he'd never done that before and could be easily explained as 4 1/2 yo behavior. he later had a third exacerbation after a flu. this was when this behavior came out in full force -- on a five yo level.

 

what i think most about your post, is not so much the behavior, but that you feel something is amiss with it. i've seen you post here often and i know you're very on the ball. when my ds first presented, separation anxiety and school phobia were intense and un-ignorable. other behaviors -- obnoxious, hypersensitive, repeating words, potty talk -- most people that i tried to describe it, said to me. . ."he's just being a boy, right?!" "he's 4 1/2 -- just a phase". i knew it was more than that. one, i'm not that uptight and two, it was infused with this off energy that just was not right. it was not in line with his personality.

 

how far are you into the 90 days? only my opinion, but i'd watch it as you would any other behavior you know to be pandas.

 

now this is more speculation -- does your son generally have tics? have you seen that clip EAmom posted of a woman talking about tics and compulsions? it was very interesting to me. she described what she termed "autistic tics" that would be along the lines of comforting -- kind of like stimming (i don't really know that words and hope i am using it correctly) but done on a subconscious level to comfort but not with a web of thoughts usually thought of with compulsions and not involuntary like other tics. i don't know that there is much medical info about this but it very much makes sense to me and describes some movements my son does better than anything else i've heard. could it be something along this line?

[Stephanie2]

If it were yeast, he would be touching himself in order to "stimulate" himself, and he may even be touching other people in inappropriate ways. Also with yeast you get very silly behavior, maybe some hyperactivity and sometimes this can tip into aggression.

 

In my opinion this does not sound like yeast, but a "tic" or a compulsion. I had this going on over a year ago with my 6yo. He constantly had his hand down his pants, and it was like you said, more subconscious. We brought him to the ped and she confirmed that is was part of his tourettes/pandas. I also came across some literature about tourettes confirming that "holding the crotch" was considered a tic.

 

Personally, I don't think you should call too much attention to it. I completely ignored it and asked my husband and his teachers to ignore it. Within a few months it went away (actually after we did IVIG to get on top of that current exacerbation).

[mkur]

I think it is a tic. IMHO, pandas tics are different than TS tics in that they don't change as much. You never want to bring attention to a TS tic because they could trade it for something worse. My son was not a big ticcer and really never switched tics. I would offer a distraction - worry stone to keep in his pocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worry_stone) or a special coin (half dollar) or polished rock or a small pocket watch chain for his belt loop or one of those clips for keys.

 

Good luck

[airial95]

Thanks for the input, we're going to look into the yeast possibility, but I'm not sure that's what it is, but it would be helpful to rule it out.

 

It's very much like what smarty has said - almost comforting to him. The only time he wasn't doing it last night was when he was snuggling his blankie and sucking his thumb - also comforting.

 

He's about 2 months into his 90 day rx, and most of the other symptoms have been subsiding, this is the main one lingering. He does have 3 tics, but they're all facial tics, so we've never made any mention of them.

 

We're trying to not make a big deal of it, and also trying to give him other things to do with his hands very subtley. We'll see how this plays out!!