Is immunity possible?

[GraceUnderPressure]

I haven't had the chance to inform my ignorance much yet, so forgive me if this is a stupid quesiton, but I was wondering if Lyme &/or any of the co-infections are handled differently by people with "normal" immune systems? Can one develop immunity to any of them after having been exposed?

[MichaelTampa]

I think little is really known about this. There are examples of people who have been in a situation of true recovery from lyme disease, who get bit by a tick and then get lyme disease again. But even this doesn't mean they didn't get immunity to the strain they had. It could be a different strain.

 

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that people develop immunity. But evidence of that would be difficult to come by. So, I don't think we know. I am guessing not. There are plenty of people who relapse, and I think a lot is about trying to keep the immune system strong.

 

I have seen links to articles here and there are about genes playing a role in response to the bugs, so perhaps there are "normal" people who do a lot better. I have never really studies those articles carefully. But I don't know that they are "immune" either.

[justinekno]

I have a question on a similar topic. If a person has an Igenex WB with bands showing (IGG 30,34,39,41 and IGM 39,41), could this be because a person had Lyme before (bullseye rash and was treated with 10 days of doxy) or could it be because the Lyme never went away? My LLMD thought that theoretically IGG goes away over time but not necessarily so no way to know if it's old cured Lyme or never properly treated Lyme. Obviously you go back to it being a clinical diagnosis so the bands shouldn't matter but it just got me thinking.

[pixiesmommy]

No one has ever been proven cured. Even those who are "recovered" without any symptoms still show spirochetes in tissue after death.

[MichaelTampa]

I have a question on a similar topic. If a person has an Igenex WB with bands showing (IGG 30,34,39,41 and IGM 39,41), could this be because a person had Lyme before (bullseye rash and was treated with 10 days of doxy) or could it be because the Lyme never went away? My LLMD thought that theoretically IGG goes away over time but not necessarily so no way to know if it's old cured Lyme or never properly treated Lyme. Obviously you go back to it being a clinical diagnosis so the bands shouldn't matter but it just got me thinking.

 

 

Yes, there are kind of guidelines on the IGG and IGM and how long they stay around, and then we hear exceptions and differences too. After treatment, I don't think the western blot is going to be that useful. Perhaps doing them every few months or so and then looking at the patterns--more bands coming, some bands going, and so on--might provide some information, or at least interesting speculation. But I'm not sure it would be worth the bother. Perhaps some other tests (beyond symptoms, of course), like CD57 and inflamation markers like C4A, would be helpful at that point.

 

Like pixiesmommy refers to, it is likely unrealistic to expect complete elimination of all lyme bacteria. I imagine that is the reality with most infections, like colds, viruses, strep--some things are just everywhere.

[pixiesmommy]

From what I understand, some people don't have symptoms but can still have the spirochetes in their systems. Some who have been debilitated can feel better and never relapse, but still show the spirochetes on autopsy, and others show only damage done from the spirochetes, so it is impossible to know if they are just that good at hiding or truly not there- very controversial.

 

With a mouse model, they did isolate antibodies once and inject healthy mice with the antibodies and then later Lyme. The mice who had been "vaccinated" did not show any degeneration to the Lyme, but did show spirochetes on autopsy. The Lyme vaccine that was given to humans (LYMErix) was an isolated part that fit with the arthritic part of Lyme, but you would still have been able to contract it, and in fact, they lit up Western Blots and ended up with pretty severe symptoms and it was pulled from the market.

 

They aren't sure what triggers symptoms exactly- if it is an eventual breaking down of your immune system by the parasites, or if it is a jolt to your system, etc. and some people get sick immediately, while others take years and slowly degenerate.