New LLMD Appt - Cats Claw

[Suzan]

I have an appt with my new LLMD next week. It's another big $$$ appt to get established. I hope I like her. She is only 2.5 hours away which is great.

 

This morning my arms started feeling funny, like they had pins and needles and then they got all squiggly feeling inside and felt like I might become paralyzed and it spread to my back and neck and I thought I was going to pass out. I lay down for a while on the heating pad and it finally passed. Now I have pins and needles in my legs and arms but it's not that squiggly feeling and it's not intense.

 

I started taking Cats Claw last week, just one pill a day to ease into it. Could this be a herx from that? I also started my period (sorry guys) 1 week early which is hugely unusual for me. Wondering what that is all about too.

 

Thoughts or stories? Feeling nervous about the cats claw.

 

Susan

[MichaelTampa]

I do think it is likely a herx. I sometimes had something that perhaps was similar but probably was different. When I am on abx while using an oxygen concentrator or getting a massage, I used to have spasms and general feeling in muscles here and there that was just difficult to describe, but not painful. It sounds like you're having tingling, and that concerns me some, but it also might be just fine. If it keeps bugging you and you are nervous, you might try moving back to half pill a day or a break for a day or two.

 

By the way, some feel that prior use of cat's claw can reduce effectiveness of fluoroquinolones (used for bartonella) in the future. I think the idea is that they are similar and the bugs will adapt. Not making a suggestion regarding that, by the time I read that info on it, I had already tried cat's claw for a couple weeks and then started testing no good for it, so had just stopped.

[Fixit]

I do think it is likely a herx. I sometimes had something that perhaps was similar but probably was different. When I am on abx while using an oxygen concentrator or getting a massage, I used to have spasms and general feeling in muscles here and there that was just difficult to describe, but not painful. It sounds like you're having tingling, and that concerns me some, but it also might be just fine. If it keeps bugging you and you are nervous, you might try moving back to half pill a day or a break for a day or two.

 

By the way, some feel that prior use of cat's claw can reduce effectiveness of fluoroquinolones (used for bartonella) in the future. I think the idea is that they are similar and the bugs will adapt. Not making a suggestion regarding that, by the time I read that info on it, I had already tried cat's claw for a couple weeks and then started testing no good for it, so had just stopped.

 

This is why i am always reading...i don't want to miss any tidbit...

not that i remember them, where i saw them, or what they are in realtion too...i just kinda remember ..bad thing, bad thing...

 

anyway...according to wiki

 

Quinolones, in comparison to other antibiotic classes, have the highest risk of causing colonization with MRSA and Clostridium difficile. For this reason, a general avoidance of fluoroquinolones is recommended based on the available evidence and clinical guidelines.[6][7][8] The majority of quinolones in clinical use belong to the subset fluoroquinolones, which have a fluorine atom attached to the central ring system, typically at the 6-position or C-7 position.

 

do you use quino- fluroquinos...and risk mrsa or c diff..cdiff being suspect for my ds right now....

or..(we just started samento..i'm doing it withe ds to see if i get any/or some results)...because as we wait to see if it is c diff ..i didn't want to loose time...it takew about 2 weeks to get results...

does cat's claw reduce effectiveness indefineitly, forever, or a period of time till it clears out...like 3-6 months?

[Suzan]

Fixit and MichaelTampa, Very interesting stuff, especially since my old LLMD is wondering about bartonella for me. Are quinolones the only abx treatment for bartonella?

 

susan

[MichaelTampa]

Regarding forever or temporary, don't know if they know that for sure. What I read didn't mention temporary, though. My memory was it was in the Buhner "Healing Lyme" book. Scanning through his section on cat's claw, I'm not finding it. So, don't know where I saw that.

 

The fluoroquinolones are not the only treatment for bartonella. The big two are levaquin and rifampin. Levaquin is the fluoroquinolone. I'm using Factive, which is similar, but not identical. Rifampin can be tough on the liver and is stopping it can be difficult with side effects as well. The fluoroquinolones can cause permanent tendon damage and, I have heard, a lot of other neurological problems. Reading on lymenet message board, you would get the impression these drugs are tolerated very poorly. Perhaps that is not the wider experience, I don't know, we can hope not. I haven't had any problems with the Factive.

[Fixit]

this was a post from mati's mom on the pandas board....

 

Fluoroquinolones are not licensed by the U.S. FDA for use in children due to the risk of fatalities as well as permanent injury to the musculoskeletal system, with two exceptions. Ciprofloxacin is being licensed for the treatment of complicated urinary tract infections and pyelonephritis due to Escherichia coli, and inhalational anthrax (postexposure), and levofloxacin was recently licensed for the treatment of inhalational anthrax (postexposure). However, the fluoroquinolones are licensed to treat lower respiratory infections in children with cystic fibrosis in the UK.

 

Within the studies submitted in response to a Pediatric Written Request (ciprofloxacin, circa 2004), the rate of atrophy was reported to be 9.3%.[61] Within the BPCA Pediatric Studies Summary for ciprofloxacin,[61] it was stated that the overall incidence of adverse events at six weeks was 41%. This would be consistent with the safety profile found with the other fluoroquinolones studied in the pediatric population. As such, the current ban on the use of the fluoroquinolones in the pediatric population is both reasonable and supported by various clinical studies. The most recent long term study, BAY 0 9867 Cipro Pediatric Use Study (QUIP), which followed pediatric patients from 1999–2008,[62] supports the current expert opinion that the risk of permanent injury continues to outweigh the potential benefits of ciprofloxacin therapy in the pediatric population.

 

Within the United States, the FDA has stated it is their intention to pursue the licensing of the fluoroquinolones for pediatric use in spite of the evidence presented at that 62 Meeting of the Anti-Infective Drugs Advisory Committee that the fluoroquinolones cause irreversible joint damage in the pediatric population.[63]