Spitting Symptom - please help it's bad

[jjl]

One of the core symptoms that our 10 yr old ds has is spitting. It is pretty bad right now along with his frequent trips to the bathroom. I believe that I have read several parents talking about the spitting symptom. We started Zith 200mg 2xday and next week we will start Doxy.

 

Is there anyone out there that has a child with the spitting symptom and has seen that symtpom resolve with abx? Please let me know as this symptom seems to be getting worse and I am not sure if it is strep related (no positive strep tests ever) or lyme related (positive Igenex band 39) or some allergic reaction (he did have a swollen airway noted on last upper GI scoping in Mar 09). The spitting went away with prednisone but came back one year later. I am not sure if this is an exacerbation of PANDAS, Lyme, or some sepoarate issue with his throat that we are not aware of yet.

 

Please share any experiences you have with the spitting symptom and whether it resolved with any treatment. I appreciate any feedback. Thanks, John L

[laure]

Hi John,

My dd9 does this too. Sometimes out the car window, on the playground, in the sink, wherever! She has a lot of contamination issues, so I think it is that perhaps? Or maybe reflux from the abx, which she has a lot of...sometimes an entire culturelle pill will come up. She seems to collect excess saliva for awhile and then spits when her mouth gets full. Not sure if this happens at school. She just finished a prednisone taper, so I'll pay attention to that symptom, not the most difficult one for us, I'm afraid. She has just had her abx increased to 250 zith two times a day. Has had PANDAS actively since July.

[Megs_Mom]

Our dd had a compulsion to spit, which eventually became a habit as well. For her, at least, it was related to OCD. She was afraid of germs/getting sick, and was spitting, often due simply to bad thoughts, to rid herself of the contamination. It was bad enough at the worst, that she had a raw chapped face, and would have to change clothes a few times a day as they were soaked - she also wiped. In the OCD community, this is not an odd compulsion - pretty common.

 

It was a really hard one for me to see. Anorexia was much more frightening; I found that the spitting really raised my anxiety and embarrassment levels, and I really had to work on that a ton during the exacerbation. Humility has certainly been a lesson for me along the way.

 

Abx really helped a LOT, as did prednisone. We used ERP therapy & then HRT therapy to help eliminate the last of this, as we had it so long (about 5 months) that it had also become a habit. I think it is easy for young brains to incorporate illness into what feels normal.

 

Reading a lot of books about OCD, geared to her age, and learning more about OCD, really helped her to communicate why she was doing many things. That made it a little easier for us to deal with or develop tools to help.

 

I do think that abx was a major turning point for us - took about 2 weeks. She never spits now.

[jjl]

Thanks Laure,

 

Although our ds son has several PANDAS or Lyme like symptoms, the spitting concerns me the most because of the throat inflammation noted during his last scoping. So, I am hoping someone can tell me whether abx resolved spitting. Like I said, the prednisone did resolve the spitting in 09, but our ds gets sick on prednisone and I understand that steroids are not good if you have lyme which he has. John L

 

 

Hi John,

My dd9 does this too. Sometimes out the car window, on the playground, in the sink, wherever! She has a lot of contamination issues, so I think it is that perhaps? Or maybe reflux from the abx, which she has a lot of...sometimes an entire culturelle pill will come up. She seems to collect excess saliva for awhile and then spits when her mouth gets full. Not sure if this happens at school. She just finished a prednisone taper, so I'll pay attention to that symptom, not the most difficult one for us, I'm afraid. She has just had her abx increased to 250 zith two times a day. Has had PANDAS actively since July.

[PhillyPA]

Antibiotics completely resolved my son's spitting problem. It was one of the first symptoms to go.

[Phasmid]

In my son's case, spitting was a compulsion or type of tic. It took a while to figure this out. I thought it was deliberate. He tried to tell me that he had a hair in is mouth. That was always his response when asked not to spit. I learned pretty soon, though, that it was a compulsion. It did stop when symptoms in general went away with antibiotic.

[jjl]

Thank you to all that replied.

 

It sounds like the spitting symptom can resolve with abx, which is what I was hoping to hear. It does look like ocd or a tic, but at least in our son's case, we have upper GI scoping evidence that it is real inflammation. I wonder if PANDAS or Lyme can cause inflammation in the throats of some kids and cause them to feel like they need to spit. Our GI doc said the inflammation was pretty bad. I hope it resolves soon for our ds like it did for you all. I find it odd that he was spitting in the Fall of 08 through Spring 09 until prednisone treatment, and then no more spitting until now, a year later. All his symptoms look like PANDAS and/or Lyme, so maybe the spitting is triggered by an exacerbation. I will post when the spitting resolves. John L

 

In my son's case, spitting was a compulsion or type of tic. It took a while to figure this out. I thought it was deliberate. He tried to tell me that he had a hair in is mouth. That was always his response when asked not to spit. I learned pretty soon, though, that it was a compulsion. It did stop when symptoms in general went away with antibiotic.

[KaraM]

ONe of my dd's symptoms was holding her saliva for a very long time - up to 20 minutes - then spitting it all out. She didn't want to swallow the germs from the air.

 

She did this prior to our discovering she had PANDAS and it resolved on it's own when she started ERP therapy. I suggest, while waiting for the antibiotics to work, to start some ERP exercises (exposure and response prevention).

 

First have your child rank the different things that cause fear/anxiety (on a scale of 1 - 10) and what he's doing to calm the fear. (Spitting is probably one of the things - unless it's caused by something other than OCD).

 

Take one or two of the lower ranked obsessions and compulsions and slowly try to overcome those.

 

So if spitting is one of the compulsions, if he's doing it frequently, see if he can prolong the amount of time before he spits (or swallow a little) - not sure what the right response prevention would be - it probably depends on the reason for the spitting...

 

Some books to help would be the children's workbook : What to Do When Your Brain Gets Stuck

For you and you and your child together: Talking Back To OCD

 

Kara

[mkur]

My son had spitting and urinary problems at first. My son got sick in Nov 1997 and we didn't learn about pandas until Sept 1998. Back then there was no abx only psy meds. I think my son's spitting was a tic. My son was prescribed Imipramine for urinary problems and tenex for impulse control/tics. They worked but then maybe the pandas just went into remission.

 

Treat the spitting as a tic. The schools cannot fight you on this. It is not a behavior problem but a neurological problem. Tourette's Syndrome Society can help you with this. My son ended up in a behavior class at a different school - this can happen fast - move quickly.

 

Treat the spitting like a runny nose. Have him spit into a tissue and make sure tissues and trash can are available.

 

Schools and other people have very negative reactions to spitting and urinary problems so I can feel your pain. I'm so sorry.

[T_Mom]

Spitting has been a symptom for both children during episodes--spitting wherever and whenever. Holding saliva as well for my older d. These symptoms resolve when the episodes of OCD/ticcing resolve, with antibiotics and/or prednisone--typically.

[EAMom]

Hi John,

my dd also had spitting as a symptom for a while. It was when her Anorexia was bad in Spring 08 (2nd grade). She had heard that the body was 90% water (or something like that). For her, the rational behind spitting was that she was trying to "spit out a pound" ie if she had less water/spit in her she would weigh less. I don't remember how long the spitting lasted (a couple of months?). It wasn't our most worrisome symptom by far. It resolved with Azith./Advil in when we started in June 08.