myrose

Thanks for your replies everyone....although not everyone has responded yet...it seems likely to be a symptom that alot share. Any ideas on why or what it means??? Links to Pandas? Tourettes? Tics?? Maybe a sensory issue. I think I am going to get a hearing test for sure now. Hopefully Buster/EAMom will chime in on their thoughts. I have wondered about this for so long but it always slips my thoughts when I am on here....Interesting......

Everything happened over here following the K shots. I always wonder and will always wonder about that. Her shots were in Nov 06 and I finally made an appointment in Dec 06 with an eye doctor....the blinking was horrible. I think it was just a few days or possibly a week tafter the shots that the blinking started...everything else followed.... Wish I could know for sure. Her current peditarician STRONGLY believes that the shots caused this. What a guessing game this can all turn into! My brother has triplets and they just turned 3 years old....I BEGGED my brother to spread their next shots out! Two of them are boys so I am worried he is not taking me seriously enough! No one really understands when you try to explain about this stuff! I am SO worried for those triplets if in fact our case is a genetic one.

Just curious if anyones child is a really loud talker? My daughter always talked LOUDLY and still does. I always thought it was the italian side of her (her dad LOL) He is always LOUD when talking! Her hearing test at birth was fine but I am thinking I should have another just to rule out anything. Anyone else have a loud talker?

Guess I forgot to ask my question in regards to this post! My question was if anyone knows why they are still prescribing the amoxicillin if back in 2006 there was evidence or should I say "suspision" that it was not treating the strep completely???? I am really confused.

Childhood headache can be a sign of depression. Parents should alert the family pediatrician if a child develops headaches along with other symptoms such as a change in mood or sleep habits. Chemical culprits. Repeated exposure to nitrite compounds can result in a dull, pounding headache that may be accompanied by a flushed face. Nitrite, which dilates blood vessels, is found in such products as heart medicine and dynamite, but is also used as a chemical to preserve meat. Hot dogs and other processed meats containing sodium nitrite can cause headaches. Eating foods prepared with monosodium glutamate (MSG) can result in headache. Soy sauce, meat tenderizer, and a variety of packaged foods contain this chemical which is touted as a flavor enhancer. Headache can also result from exposure to poisons, even common household varieties like insecticides, carbon tetrachloride, and lead. Children who ingest flakes of lead paint may develop headaches. So may anyone who has contact with lead batteries or lead-glazed pottery. Artists and industrial workers may experience headaches after exposure to materials that contain chemical solvents. These solvents, like benzene, are found in turpentine, spray adhesives, rubber cement, and inks. Drugs such as amphetamines can cause headaches as a side effect. Another type of drug-related headache occurs during withdrawal from long-term therapy with the antimigraine drug ergotamine tartrate. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/headach...il_headache.htm

Sick of Strep Throat With New Antibiotics, Pediatricians Fight Proxy War on Bugs October 1, 2006 — Strep throat has become harder to fight using penicillin or amoxicillin, but that's not because the Streptococci have developed a resistance to those drugs. Instead, more than 50 percent of children have bacteria in their throats that protect strep germs. New versions of antibiotics called cephalosporins are targeting the other bacteria, improving the odds of successful treatment fivefold. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like most 7-year-olds, Josh Butler has no time for sick days. But every winter, Josh is sidelined with strep throat. Josh usually gets the drug amoxicillin, but it never works. He always needs a second treatment with a different drug. "It was kind of frustrating," Josh's mom, Nikki, says. "'Oh my goodness. Why can't we just get this right the first time?'" Strep throat is the second-most-common reason children get antibiotics. But the gold standard antibiotics they get don't always clear up the infection. Pediatric infectious disease specialist Michael Pichichero, of the University of Rochester Medical Center in New York, says, says the standard strep drugs -- amoxicillin and penicillin -- fail in about 25 percent of kids. "Strep is not actually resistant to penicillin or amoxicillin so, that cannot explain the failures that we're seeing," he says. Instead, other bacteria are the problem. More than half of kids have bacteria in their throats that protect strep germs. Dr. Pichichero says, "This is very much different from 20 or 30 years ago where almost all children treated with penicillin and amoxicillin would be cured." But his research shows newer drugs can kill strep. One in four kids fails treatment with penicillin. One in six fails newer drugs called cephalosporins. Only one in 20 fail the newer versions of those drugs. The newer antibiotics only need to be taken for four to five days, rather than the 10-day course of the older drugs. Nikki thinks Josh will get strep throat again this winter, but she's hoping the newer drugs will take care of it the first time around. BACKGROUND: Researchers at the University of Rochester Medical Center have found that a short treatment of a newer class of antibiotics is more effective than the traditional 10-day dose of older antibiotics like penicillin and amoxicillin to treat strep throat. The Rochester scientists reviewed over 47 studies over the past 35 years involving more than 11,000 children and found that 25 percent of children treated for strep throat with penicillin ended up back in the doctor's office within three weeks. HOW ANTIBIOTICS WORK: Infections are caused by single-celled organisms called bacteria, which can sometimes evade the body's immune system and begin reproducing. Antibiotics kill those harmful bacteria in various ways, such as preventing a bacterium from turning glucose into energy, or preventing it from construct a cell wall. The bacteria die instead of reproducing. Antibiotics are like selective poisons, because they target bacteria and not the body's own cells. They are not effective against viruses, however. Unlike bacteria, a virus isn't a living, reproducing lifeform, just a piece of DBA or RNA. A virus injects its DNA into a living cell and the cell itself reproduces more of the viral DNA. There is nothing to "kill," so antibiotics don't work on viruses. ABOUT STREP THROAT: Most sore throats are caused by viruses and generally clear up without medical treatment. Strep throat is an infection caused by a type of bacteria, and thus needs treatment with antibiotics. Symptoms include fever, stomach pain and red swollen tonsils. The bacteria can be transferred to others by sneezing, coughing or shaking hands. A doctor will usually take a throat culture to test for strep throat. Lack of treatment can lead to other health problems, such as rheumatic fever (which can damage the heart), scarlet fever, blood infections or kidney disease. DRUG RESISTANCE: Bacteria are highly adaptive, and over time they naturally develop resistance, protecting them from incoming germs (and antibiotics) and making them harder to kill. Repeated exposure to penicillin and amoxicillin can result in a throat full of bacteria that can shield strep germs from the older drugs. The surviving bacteria then reproduce more and become more dominant. Sometimes parents discontinue antibiotic medication prematurely when their children begin to feel better, so the strep germ isn't entirely killed off, leading to much more severe infections requiring the use of even stronger drugs later on. http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006/10...trep_throat.htm

My daughter was tired on the chlonidine they first prescribed back when all this started. After her nightmares began and her blood pressure going a little too low for me...I immediately took her off. On the topamax though...she was never tired so thats strange. I am sorry you had such bad luck with all you tried. I also heard that doctors (and have also come to this conclusion myself) always over prescribe! The trick to all meds is to start out low and go slow until you reach the benefit you are looking for. Everytime we go in for follow ups they STILL want to bump her up on the topamax!! Why in the world would they want to do that if the low dose works? Drives me crazy. Side effects are also doseage related, and all the studies on the net are usually in reagrds to adult doseages. Lastly no I do not want to keep my child on topamax all her life but I will say this.....If she had epilepsy...she would HAVE to be on it no matter how I felt... Just like blood pressure meds.....most HAVE to take them. Its hard to feel like you have made the best decision sometimes. The trial and error alone is enough to drive someone insane when dealing with this stuff. I hope we get to the bottom of it soon.....

Oh by the way EAMOM (I keep forgetting to ask) You and Buster seemed to be filled with a wealth of information! Do you know each other?

EAMOM...I just posted to you about researching topamax and trying to find a link tonight. I see you are way ahead of me! You are also corrrect with the low dose info...she started out at 15mg and then after a week 1/2 we went to 25mg and never bummed up from there. I am now wondering if the 15mg would have been enough to show the miraclous improvements. Anyhow this is the only thing that she is on...other than a multivitamin (all natural of course) Speaking of the vitamin...I posted a bit ago about fructose. One night when I picked up her vitamin bottle I saw something I never did before on the label. It said "sweetened with fructose" I paniced and tried to remember all my reasearch but had complete brain fog as to if this was one of the BAD sugars. I wrote a post asking about it.....and to my surprise one of the other posters (can not remember who) reported that when she researched topamax she saw something in the ingredients (or something) that was a sugar like this. I am so sorry that I just cannot rememeber the whole thing. I will have to read back over the post later on. I was relieved by the way to have found out that fructose was a good natural sweetner. I will try to find in a bit....Just got back from soccer practice and I have to bath my HAPPY little girl (they won) and get her in bed. Thanks again EAMOM! I will let you know what I find as well. Its all becoming VERY interesting to me.

EAMOM...Thanks so much for the info you have thrown my way! Its a true Godsend to say the least! I did the bribery thing with the blood....I felt so terrible after they had to poke her at least in and out four times that I took her to buy that talking Parrot!! It came out last year I think. Imagine my surprise when we got to Target and I realized the thing was almost $80.00!!!!!!! I also tried everything and I mean everything including a trip to Disney (we live in Orlando) and when she did not respond to even that, I knew how much it truly got to her. I feel terrible about it and I just wish there was an easier way. I am going to try and research Topamax and its ingredients this weekend sometime. She is on the sprinkle caps not the white tabs (I mention this because the ingredients are different) That is weird to me as well. It does treat OCD though and it does work for her tics as well. I wonder as you do if someone with Pandas has tried just the topamax with the same results. The low dose for her body weight even throws me more into the wonderland! Thanks again! I will know my next step after I hear back from the neuro. I really wish they would get back soon. I would hate to play the waiting game for the next few weeks!

I may be wrong here (so please correct me if I am) but I was always told to NEVER give yogurt while antibiotics?? My daughter took her first antibiotic in or with yogurt (because of the taste) and after 4 days finally got a reaction from the amoxicllin. (she is allergic to it we found out) Anyhow reason being I was told from her former Pediatrician...that it took so long for her to display a reaction is because the yougurt cultures were killing/fighting with the antibiotics....thus making the antibiotic weaker??? Does this make any sense (sure I worded it wrong) At any rate I am confused........

Buster I forgot to mention about negative cultures.....As I stated after the swab in February, my daughter will not allow the rapid test done. We tried to get it in there last month the best we could and it was negative and the culture was neg. as well. The problem though is that without knowing we got it in there correctly or where it exactly touched inside her mouth....we just can not be 100% positive that the readings were accurate. I just purchased the home strep kit. I am thinking of maybe trying to get it when she is asleep on my own. I am sure it will wake her up and I will fail but at this point anything is worth a try. The kit comes with everything you need to test and gives you a negative or postive (rapid test) I thought it would be good as well if my husband and I were to use it. Just to see if someone here could be a carrier of some kind. Thanks again Buster and I do hope you stay smooth sailing from here as well. Its nice to breathe again...isn't it?

Buster, Colleenrn: We had the xrays done to look for swollen ANYTHING in there. I was actually almost praying that it indeed was the abnoids causing it. This way I could have a reason to why it was happening and also fix it. They checked her for everything. We also tried everything. She went to bed everynight with a box of tissues and tried SO HARD to keep blowing her nose. It was awful and the only thing that ended up even touching it was the afrin. We then became addicted to it!!!! She couldn't sleep if she could not breathe through her nose so this caused her to cry which of course made the nose MORE stuffed! I even tried elevating her pillow at night. Warm and cool humidifiers as well. She got up all night long complaining of it and thus was tired during the day and not such a pleasant mood either (lack of sleep) I am SO GLAD its gone!!!!!!!!!!! I still cannot understand why everything disappeared on this topamax. I have tried to research the ingredients but honestly I believe my brain also needs a rest! It doesn't seem to retain anything anymore. The reading and reading and READING throughout this ordeal! Buster: When her head bob got so bad back in May, I called her neuro and said "I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING NOW" The new neuro after reading som mild discharges in her EEG suggested Topamax. He felt it could have been seizure activity. We repeated the EEG with him and his conclusion was the same as the previous neuro in that the tics had nothing to do with the discharges and it was not of eptilic form (sure I spelled that wrong) In other words the head bobs were not related to any seizure activity although it appeared to look like that. We decided at that point to keep her on the topamax even though we had the choice to take her off. He did say it would help with the tics and given the fact that they were gone...we kept her on and got back to a normal life. I later learned that topamax was also used for OCD. I did not want to add another med to this. It was recommeded to add tenex but I refused. She is doing so great on just the topamax and as everything started to disapear....I was staying where we were. I have written down everything from your posts and also EAMoms as well. I am just waiting to hear back from the neuro after I sent him the info lastnight. I will let you know what his repsonse is. Thank You so much for all the valuable info! I am armed now and ready to fight if thats what it takes. I do find the stuffy nose thing interesting........guess my night will be spent googling!

Buster and EAMOM....First, thanks for all the help and info! I can't tell you enough on what it really means to me. My daughter is currently on Topamax 25mg daily. This takes away all of her symptoms so I am not sure what condition she would be in and what would come back if I took her off. I was okay with her being on this (being that we have no side effects) and our lilves were back to normal but as I have already stated...I was always curious on Pandas because of her symptoms and what I have read on these boards. What has started me back on this road for Pandas is because I read on here that if Pandas is left untreated it can cause irreversible damage. That scared me so I just want to make sure that we are treating her correctly. She has no symptoms that she used to have which were: Urge to pee everynight constantly, picking at her fingers, biting her lip, Ocd with washing the hands and everything having to be perfect in her drawings, over reacted to just about every situation, sensory issues with clothing, tics started with eye blinking, then there was abdominal ones, toe curling, shoulder and neck. The last one changed her life, it was the head BOB and body jerk. This WAS AWFUL to even look at and she cried constantly. These tics were constant everyday...no break. The head bob was even more severe when she had a fever one time. Also as stated her last positive strep was Feb 08. She will now no longer let then put the swab in her mouth! We tried to hold her down last month to do it but they could not be sure they got an accurate reading. IT WAS HORRIBLE, I FELT HORRIBLE! I talked her into the blood again in May but again the titers were not elevated. They poked her in and out at least 4 or so more times so now we will have to hold her down for the blood as well. I HATE the thought of putting her through that!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish this whole thing never came! UGH I just emailed a copy of your (Buster) post about titers. Also I mentioned Dr. K from Chicago and that the steroid burst was somewhat helpful in identifying/diagnosing Pandas??? Hope that info was correct. Bottom line here is that in order to tell what is going on with her...she needs to be taken off the topamax. I will wait and see how and what the neuro responds....and let you know. OH....this all started as well after she had 9 immunations. About a week later I believe. Could have had a predispostion for tics and the shock to her immune brought them out?? Who knows.... She has never had any vocals though, we kept waiting but nothing. We were told of them all and what to look for as well. She had some sniffing but this was due to a CONSTANT stuffed up nose usually only at night. She was treated with Nasonex but it did not help at all. I shot that OUT! Now mysteriously her stuffed nose disapeared with the topamax as well. I just do not understand it at this point! Thanks again and have a nice night

Hello Buster, I finally got my neuro to at least look at what I have to offer about titers. The nurse practioner asked me to email my information. A quick update: They will not even try antibiotics with my daughter because of the titer level only. I do know though that their first choice to treat with antibiotics is amoxicillin. I have heard this is not goot. Anyhow my question to you is now that I FINALLY may have an ear to at least listen to me....Do you think it would be best to send them your post (the one about titers) to get them to look into this more?? Let me know before I send the email....this may be my only shot at this. I just want to make sure my daughter is treated properly. Thanks in advance Buster!

Amy, I am in kind of the same boat with you. But in my daughters case...all her symptoms are completely gone. So for me to just think about taking her off from topamax puts a big pit in my stomach!!!! On the other hand I want and need to know if she was diagnosed corrrectly. This Pandas thing scared me now alot. The more new information comes out, the more I wonder about my daughter and the possiblility of having Pandas. I wish we could just all know for sure what the right thing to do is. I am going to pray for now...I am going to pray really hard that whatever I do will turn out to be the very best for my daughter. What else can we do???? I hate the topamax as well, but like you, it got so BAD that I myslef couldn't go on any longer without being able to help her. Its hard to think back through everything even today! Gods speed to you and I will add you to my prayers tonight and ask that you find the guidance you need as well. Please keep me posted. Oh, if your daughter is still experiencing symptoms while on meds.....maybe they are not working for her so my question would be why to keep her on them? What is she on? She is on two meds??

Here is the last thing I was able to find in my searches: Oh and by the way...the test was not covered by our insurance (but our insurance seems to cover NOTHING) the cost was only $125.00. Seems this would help tell all with just one prick and one test. I am really anticipating the results now!!! Tuesday cannot come fast enough!!! DRIED BLOOD CELL ANALYSIS: WHAT IS DRIED BLOOD CELL ANALYSIS? Dried Blood Cell Analysis works by acquiring a sample of blood (with a small prick from the finger), and viewing the sample through a high-powered microscope to determine the condition of the body. Dried Blood Cell Analysis is not a diagnosis, but a screening tool to analyze the present condition of the body and help access nutritional needs of our clients. Our staff checks the blood sample for parasites, yeast, bacteria, nutritional deficiencies, viruses etc. Dried blood cell analysis gives us an indication of what's going on inside the body. It also signifies what is taking place in different quadrants of the body. We check the sample for free radical damage (degenerative tissue). Dried Blood Cell Analysis is a simple and proven method that has been used for many years by the Bradford Research Institute in California. They work with people combating degenerative diseases such as cancer, AIDS, chronic fatigue, candida, arthritis, allergies and asthma. Dried Blood Cell Analysis is a wholistic approach to analyzing the blood. There is no guesswork with this process. After the blood is analyzed a detailed program is suggested. Clients will also be given a copy of their DBA (dried blood cell analysis) report. This process is very detailed and it eliminates them taking unnecessary herbs, vitamin, mineral and other homeopathic supplements. DBA helps our Naturopathic Doctors suggest specific programs that will help their clients. One client may require a cleansing program while another may simply need a balanced multi-vitamin/mineral program. A client may have been taking vitamins for years and the question arises whether the body is using these elements or not. If the system is challenged with toxins, it is important to cleanse the body first. This is why it is unnecessary to suggest a program full of building herbs when the body is toxic. With the microscope, we can see toxic substances, so if a specific program is required, individual needs can be met. HOW OFTEN CAN I HAVE THIS DONE? You can have this session as often as you would like, however, we ask to see clients in one month after receiving their first Dried Blood Cell Analysis, this way, together we can view the positive changes that occured before and after a program. We show our clients their blood sample before their program and their blood sample during or after their program. When we show them their blood cell sample, the excitement is overwhelming. Clients are absolutely ecstatic about viewing their blood. However, we are just as excited as our client because helping them achieve optimum health is our primary goal.

Thanks so much Cheri (as always) I just got off the phone with the receptionist and I am scheduled to go in and go over the results next Tuesday (14th) at 10:30. I will post what it shows etc... I have also been trying to research a little more on it and from what I can tell its a little miracle test, meaning that it shows everything from mineral and vitamin deficiency, toxicitiy etc...also shows that if you are taking supplements....if your body is actually absorbing them correctly. Although I will HATE the wait until Tuesday, I am also excited now to learn what it shows. Thanks again and have a great day!

I am posting on this board and not the pandas board because our diagnosis is Tic disorder... My daughters new pediatrician wanted to do a dry blood blood analysis on my daughter. We did it back in August. I was told it could take months for the results. Well....I got the call yesterday on my answering machine that the results were in. I was instructed to call the office this morning and make a appoinment to come in and go over the results (without my daughter) I have been doing a little research as to what the analysis shows and I am still a little puzzled. Can anyone help me or maybe explain what exactly a dry blood analysis shows?? Also wondering why one would have to go in on an appointment to discuss results. The pediatrician told me we would do this when she suggested the test so I am not sure what they found if anything. But I would think if they found nothing that they would just say it was normal over the phone???? I hate the waiting game!!! Thanks in advance for any help or info regarding the dry blood analysis. By the way....all they did was poke my daughters finger and then put the drops of blood onto clear plastic slides.

Dedee unfortunately my daughter is on topamax, so her tics, ocd, sensory and other issues are gone. This is my dilema....The only thing would be to go off from the topamax but until I get all the facts together and talk to some more Doctors including her neurologist I am just going to let things be. I would have to also wait for a break in school to do this. I just can't put her through anymore at this time. But as I have said I need to know and want to know if she is being treated correctly. When the time comes...and I have some doctors to back me up I will eventually have to do this. Right now I am just gathering input and experiences as to maybe better prepare myself for when and if the time does come when we need to do this.... Thank you though for your suggestion. I started a log as well a bit back when it all started. I also kept the food journals. Thanks to the board as well!

I am waiting for Doctor call backs and more of my daughters records to be mailed. In the meantime I am just trying to arm myself with info. My question and please forgive it, if it seems like everything I have already asked but I am curious. Just wondering if there is one symptom that stands out more in the case of Pandas/Tourettes/Tic Disorders. For instance I heard and read (on here) that the frequent bathroom urges were a classic sign of pandas. But then I also heard it could be a bladder tic and also be a part of OCD. So is there one common symptom, whether a tic or anything that is usually seen more in Pandas, Tics or? Tourettes? One that maybe stands out? I realize that most all of the symptoms could account for any of the diagnosis but I am just curious if someone who has been reading the boards for a long time ever picked up on similaritys relating specificially to Pandas, Tics or Tourettes? I also remember reading that tourettes tics were different than Tic disorder tics???? And one could tell the difference? I must have buried all my info in my head! Feel like I am starting over here!!!!!

Kelly, I can take her off from Topamax at any time. She does not have to be on the topamax because of her mildy abnormal EEG. It was suggested that Topamax would help prevent future seizures to come. They cannot figure out why she has a slightly abnormal EEG. The only conclusion was that it may be a sign of her to have seizures in the future. She has never had a seizure though. So in order to prevent future seizures (if any) and the fact that topamax would also control her tics and ocd etc. We decided to put her on it after the tics began to take away a quality of life for her. They got just TOO bad. In other words she is not on topamax because of her EEG reading. We wouldn't have under normal circumstances treated the EEG reading. You don't have to. We repeat the EEG every year now and am just waiting for the slight discharges to dissapear in which they believe they will. If they do not, then thats okay for it doesn't effect her in anyway anyone can see. I am not sure of what tics, ocd she would have when off from topamax and that is where my whole dilema comes in. I think being that we just started the topamax in May/June that I will leave things be now. At least I want to but with this pandas thing in my mind I also want to make sure she is being treated properly. I called both her doctors today and I printed out Busters post as well per suggestion by EAMOM and am going to get it to our neurologist. If he feels that it changes his mind or if I can get someone to listen to me.....I will try the antibiotics. Thus we would have to go off from the topamax in order to see if the antibiotics were working. She is on a very low dose so weaning down would only take 1 week, so by week 2 she would be free of topamax. I will then wait until a long holiday from school and pray for the best. I woud hate to put her through anymore at this point but again what else can I do. The topamax was fast acting in her case (just a few days) so I am prepared to keep it available in the advent we need to start again....For now I will just have to see what the doctors responses are. She is doing SO WELL! She is so happy and so am I. I don't miss the ocd behaviors, the sensory issues, the constant urge to pee, and mostly the TICS!!! They wre by far the WORST for us above all we were dealing with. I wish I knew why exactly she does so well on topamax. Its puzzling to say the least. Especially at such a low dose for her body weight (I won't increase). The other med she was on was the clonidine.....she was tired and then of course the low blood pressure and nightmares. We have had no side effects what so ever with the low dose of topamax and I THANK GOD for this time right now everyday. Its nice to breathe again and still continue my research on it all, but when convenient for me. It doesn't consume my life anymore is what I mean. Have a nice day

I just realized tonight that my daughters vitamins (Rainbow light all natural) are sweetened with Fructose. Does this sound right? Why would they put that in an all natural vitamin? Isn't Fructose BAD? Or is it the amount that is bad. (I am not confusing it with the corn syrup) I just think I remember reading REALLY bad things about fructose. Seems lately I don't want to eat anything anymore! I will google now I guess but all your inputs will help as well.

Cheri...I will try to talk again with Dr.Franz on my conerns. We did do a dry blood analysis with her a few months back and the results are still not back in. Not sure what that will exactly show but it was something she wanted to do so I did it. Also if anyone has any comment on this I would appreciate it. My daughter last tested positive for strep this Past February (Valentine's Day) She also had blood work again on May 20th of this year. The results as far as the titers and such were as follows: Anti Dnase B ------- <80 Streptococcal (AB) - REF ----- <60 Anti Streptolysin O Titer ------ <25 Would the strep still have showed 3 months later in the blood work? Seems to me her results are low for strep. Unfortunately I do not have the blood results from the first time we tested which was in August/September of 07 to compare anything. But I will be calling for these as well tomorrow. I will also try Dr. Murphy again but I am not going to get my hopes up high for that one. Thanks again to everyone for all your help. Appears I am now to be on yet another mission..... And please Cheri understand that I always do follow up with the doctors and I come here not for a diagnosis but helpful insight on what might be my/our next step. It helps to here of similar situations and such, alothough I do fully understand that every child is different no matter how much they seem alike...make sense???? I tried anyhow... But don't worry okay. I always make sure the little one gets what she needs by the professionals......it helps though going in with suggestions and not feeling like a fool when they all start talking.....I like to prepared and of course an advocate for her. This board and all the replies helps me get there.

BMom, Thanks for the suggestion. When you say sudden onset is where I get confused. I mean anyone that started with tics and such had a sudden onset didn't they? I mean they just woke up one day having tics right?? So isn't everyone that started having tics considered sudden onset??? I am confused...HELP! also I was trying to explain to Cheri in my reply post to her that if the topamax takes away all my daughters symptoms with tics and Ocd then how would I know if they are stronger sometimes after illness or whenever??? Do you know what I mean...Please say YES LOL