Co-infections

[P_Mom]

Okay...so the co-infections of Lyme occur with Lyme? Hence the co....as in co-worker...someone who works with you?? So, how can you be positive for a Lyme co-infection and be negative for Lyme? Confused! THanks!

[KeithandElizabeth]

Bartonella is one of the few co-infections that can occur on its own because there are two types of bartonella.

 

One type is from a cat (called "Cat Scratch) and/or a dog and you can get this from the animals saliva, feces, etc..... Than another type of bartonella comes from a tic bite and this type often is associated with lyme. However, if someone is really sick and their body is not fighting the lyme very well, then their lyme test may be negative even though the co-infection test was positive. Often, after a few months of treating the co-infection, the doctor will go back and test the lyme and find a positive lyme test because the lyme is not being suppressed by the co-infection.

 

Elizabeth

[P_Mom]

Thanks!

 

Does Bartonella have the whip-like tail?

Edited September 10, 2010 by P.Mom

[justinekno]

I feel like "co-infection" is a bad word. I sooo don't want to go down that road. Lyme is enough for us. I can't take much more

 

Okay...so the co-infections of Lyme occur with Lyme? Hence the co....as in co-worker...someone who works with you?? So, how can you be positive for a Lyme co-infection and be negative for Lyme? Confused! THanks!

Edited September 10, 2010 by justinekno

[KeithandElizabeth]

Justine:

 

I forget about whether or not your son is seeing an ILADS doctor? If so, they will probably test for all of the co-infections and I really HATE to say this to you, but more often than not, there is often a co-infection with lyme disease and it is so important to figure that part out. Most of the co-infections can be treated with the lyme antibiotics (I believe) except babesia, which needs an anti-malaria drug, like mepron.

 

But on the bright side, maybe your son does just have lyme and there are no co-infections!

 

Elizabeth

[P_Mom]

Myself, and a girl I go to Church with, both tested positive for "lyme" 2 years ago.....we also both tested negative for all co-infections. (we both also had sky high EBV titers at the time)

[smartyjones]

Okay...so the co-infections of Lyme occur with Lyme? Hence the co....as in co-worker...someone who works with you?? So, how can you be positive for a Lyme co-infection and be negative for Lyme? Confused! THanks!

 

i will disclaim that i am not the most lyme literate person here but . . . my understanding is that the 'co' really refers to also carried by ticks. the co-infections are separate infections that can be carried and transmitted by the tick at the time of that bite or even by another tick at another bite. lyme is caused by borrelia spirochete bacteria; bartonella is a separate bacteria; babesia is a what, a virus? there are also parasites that can be transmitted by the ticks. so the co is really co to the tick, not the lyme disease.

 

so, i believe most drs believe that if you are showing one bacteria known to be transmitted by a tick, you should check out if you could have also gotten other infections as well.

 

with this thinking, you could have been bitten by a tick that carried one bacteria but not specifically borrellia and therefore, have only bartonella or babesia. not common, but possible. i believe most drs would assume you'd also have borrelia and therefore treat for lyme also.

 

perhaps, and only my speculation, these infections have some type of parasitic relationship where they depend on each other and further each other's existence. . . ?. . .

Edited September 12, 2010 by smartyjones

[justinekno]

We have a first appt next month with an LLMD. My son tested negative for co-infections through Labcorp and Clinical Pathology. We only did the Lyme test through IGenex.

 

Justine:

 

I forget about whether or not your son is seeing an ILADS doctor? If so, they will probably test for all of the co-infections and I really HATE to say this to you, but more often than not, there is often a co-infection with lyme disease and it is so important to figure that part out. Most of the co-infections can be treated with the lyme antibiotics (I believe) except babesia, which needs an anti-malaria drug, like mepron.

 

But on the bright side, maybe your son does just have lyme and there are no co-infections!

 

Elizabeth

[smartyjones]

Myself, and a girl I go to Church with, both tested positive for "lyme" 2 years ago.....we also both tested negative for all co-infections. (we both also had sky high EBV titers at the time)

 

p.mom -- how did you treat the EBV?

[sptcmom]

Ds8 tested totally negative for Lyme (burgdorfieri and all coinfections with Igenex.His Bartonella H. with Igenex was borderline so Dr J retested with Specialty lab. DS came back positive for bartonella H. IgG at 1:256. Dr J tells me DS also fit the clincial profile for Bartonella when he evaluated him.

Edited September 12, 2010 by sptcmom

[KeithandElizabeth]

smartyjones:

 

Funny about the whole relationship part of these infections! But, you are right! Our LLMD always describes how the different bacterias/parasites/viruses relate and depend on each other and in order to keep the "host" alive, they even suppress each other. Hence, this is why a very sick person will have negative tests for possibly the lyme, yet have a positive coinfection or vice versa.

 

Another interesting tidbit on this topic is that our doctor said that if he has a patient who just has mycoplasma and not lyme, etc.... than the mycoplasma alone can take a much longer time to treat than if the person has many other infections. For instance, he projects a person with just mycoplasma will take 2 to 4 months on 2 antibiotics to completely eradicate the bacteria and yet if they had many other infections, he often sees that the mycoplasma is gone in 6 to 8 weeks. I thought this was counter-intuitive and yet, now, it makes sense.

 

Elizabeth

[P_Mom]

Myself, and a girl I go to Church with, both tested positive for "lyme" 2 years ago.....we also both tested negative for all co-infections. (we both also had sky high EBV titers at the time)

 

p.mom -- how did you treat the EBV?

 

 

 

My doc put me on high doses of Olive Leaf Extract and also Valtrex.

[lyme_mom]

As Elizabeth alluded to, these infections can be there but not show up on a test. Negative coinfection tests do not mean much- it's the symptoms and patients' response to treatment. I read dr Schaller's books on bartonella and babesia and you get a pretty good idea how hard it is to find these organisms in the lab. Schaller does his own testing of patients and finds babesia that doesn't show up in regular lab tests. I know dr j and other llmds do not count on a negative coinfection test to rule out a coinfection if the patients' symptoms indicate a coinfection. These days most people with Lyme have one or more coinfection. Hard to believe at first because it's hard enough to believe u have one disease let alone three or more! Sometimes the word Lyme is used to refer to any of these tickborne infections, not just borelia so it gets confusing.