question about those dark eye circles and adenoids

[ajcire]

I was talking to a friend about my non pandas dd and taking her to an ENT... she was telling me about her kids (not pandas) and that one of them had swollen adenoids that went down after 3 weeks of antibiotics at the ENT's direction... she told me it was the cause of the dark circles under the eyes.. I told her my dr. said that was an allergy look and she said yeah, that if it's not allergies it's often adenoids..... I never would have guessed my pandas ds for an adenoid issue but it got me wondering... he gets no sore throats with his strep so I hadn't thought to take him (well until reading Faith's post on ENT) ... I am going to make an appt for him today hopefully .. hoping this ENT gets what I am talking about when It talk to him today at my dd's appt...

 

Just food for thought...I know a lot of us here have kids with those dark circles... curious if your kids also have adenoid issues that you know of?

[thereishope]

My son still got dark circles post t and a when he was in another exacerbation.

 

Ask about a possible sinus infection being hidden too if you see any puffiness by the eyes along with the darkness.

[earnestfamily7]

My DS and DD had dark eye circles prior to T & A surgery- The dr said they both were HUGE! and likely cauing more problems then we even realized....

my son went into exasperation just after surgery and his eyes looked BAD!!! He has been on Omnicef for 8 days and they look so much better! (an he is doing Great!) My daughter has not responded as favorably to the Omnicef - (9days in) her eyes look awful! I told my husband and mom ... you can tell by looking at her - she is a wreck! (it doesnt help that she put vaseline in her hair 2 xs in the past 4 days!) and last night she cut a chunk out of here hair (a long piece... it can be hidden but nonetheless...)

 

The ENT should be able to offer some help... where do you live again - my ENT is in OH at Akron Childrens in OH... he is very GOOD!

[swim]

My son gets the dark circles when PANDAS symptoms are elevated. I know what ernestfamily7 means when you say you can just look at their eyes and know they are a mess. Funny you made this post now as we just found a 1 centimeter cyst on our son's adenoids two days ago when he was in for an MRI for an unrelated issue. Our pediatrician suggested that maybe strep could be "hiding" in the cyst. Of course, I am anxious to have the adenoids removed and have the cyst looked at. Unfortunately, we have another medical issue to get closure on before we can address the adnoids, but I am hoping we can address the adenoids SOON!

[Charlotte Mom]

My son gets the dark circles when PANDAS symptoms are elevated. I know what ernestfamily7 means when you say you can just look at their eyes and know they are a mess. Funny you made this post now as we just found a 1 centimeter cyst on our son's adenoids two days ago when he was in for an MRI for an unrelated issue. Our pediatrician suggested that maybe strep could be "hiding" in the cyst. Of course, I am anxious to have the adenoids removed and have the cyst looked at. Unfortunately, we have another medical issue to get closure on before we can address the adnoids, but I am hoping we can address the adenoids SOON!

 

 

Can they tell if there is strep in the adnoids after they take them out?

[Charlotte Mom]

What did Faith's post say?

[faith]

CM,

do you mean about checking out the adenoids for strep once they're out? I don't think they can do that, I asked about the tonsils and he said no one is really doing that, it would be more for a study. with the adenoids tho, I would think they will biopsy the cyst for anything suspicious.

 

we were looking at tonsils because my son's are quite big and I wondered if it had any bearing on our PANDAS search, i.e. could there be strep hiding in there? but again, it didn't look like there was a way to find out. don't know if that's what you're asking, but that's why I went.

 

Faith

[peglem]

When my daughter had her T&A they biopsied the tonsils. I didn't know they would do that and didn't know it had been done until I got the medical records and read the report.

[harmony]

My son gets the dark circles when PANDAS symptoms are elevated. I know what ernestfamily7 means when you say you can just look at their eyes and know they are a mess. Funny you made this post now as we just found a 1 centimeter cyst on our son's adenoids two days ago when he was in for an MRI for an unrelated issue. Our pediatrician suggested that maybe strep could be "hiding" in the cyst. Of course, I am anxious to have the adenoids removed and have the cyst looked at. Unfortunately, we have another medical issue to get closure on before we can address the adnoids, but I am hoping we can address the adenoids SOON!

 

 

Can they tell if there is strep in the adnoids after they take them out?

yep.

I would ask your dr. to do a biopsy- just in case he doesn't routinely check.

[ajcire]

I went today with my dd... he said she meets all requirements for the tonsil and adenoids being removed..

 

I had an interesting conversation with him regarding everything... He was completely unfamiliar with pandas but very open to the idea of it... I was very sad that ENTs who see kids for too much strep all the time are not familiar with it... If he didn't believe in it but had heard of it that would have been less upsetting.... He had his computer and did a search and as soon as it came up he said it was very interesting to him.. that he had an adult come in for her tonsils out who had ocd and she had binders and binders of info regarding strep and ocd.. but never did she use the word pandas I guess.. maybe because she is an adult... he told her to call and let him know if it helped any (she must have said this is why she wanted it) and he said she never called.. but she was so ocd about it that her not calling could have been a good sign that maybe she wasn't so ocd about it still

 

That said the nurse or whoever the person who first talked to us at the ENT was asking questions and I mentioned my pandas ds who was not with me... she had not heard the term pandas but when I talked about his throat clearing tic she said WAIT we had a child come in for frequent strep and who kept clearing his throat but we couldn't find a medical reason... I think she had a total lightbulb moment about some patients of theirs and I felt good that they were a bit intrigued. I will be taking my ds in to be checked soon.. OH and when I asked if he would put my dd on prophylactic antibiotics before he said just to remind him prior because he usually only does that for after surgery but he understood why..phew.. AND even though he had not heard of pandas he said that he definitely thinks her constant tummyaches could be connected and that he has had parents report to him that their kids tummyaches were better after.... CROSSING MY FINGERS... Of course he said that this doesn't mean she can't still get strep but that the benefits outweight the risks for her to have it done...

 

Another interesting thing was that my dd's tonsils are pretty small.. he actually said that is quite common for kids who get strep and throat infections and that once out we might see they are just flattened.. he also said that her pain tolerance for it is probably so high because of the frequency which is why when I got strep I was in such pain and she just says once that her throat hurts and then goes on her merry way. He said she has likely just gotten used to it.

 

He didn't scope her adenoids.. said that it is standard to take them out too... My son will need to be scoped though since not sure his tonsils coming out is going to be a clear cut decision... .. he won't be a happy camper.

[thereishope]

Glad the appointment went well and I'm glad you educated many more. Do you have a date set?

[laurenjohnsonsmom]

When we met with Dr. Latimer, last week, she suggested that we have the tonsils and adnoids removed, asap. She also confirmed that they would be sent to pathology to check for strep. We go back to Georgetown next Tuesday to do the consult with the pediatric ENT. I am now struggling with the idea of having dd2's removed as well. She has also been diagnosed PANDAS by both Dr. Bouboulis and Dr. Tifiletti, (had the aso rise but has presently with only moderate ocd, weather fears, anxiety and body imaging) We are anxiously awaiting her Cam score from Dr. Cunninham's. (due back any day now). BTW, dd2 always gets dark circles...

 

I went today with my dd... he said she meets all requirements for the tonsil and adenoids being removed..

 

I had an interesting conversation with him regarding everything... He was completely unfamiliar with pandas but very open to the idea of it... I was very sad that ENTs who see kids for too much strep all the time are not familiar with it... If he didn't believe in it but had heard of it that would have been less upsetting.... He had his computer and did a search and as soon as it came up he said it was very interesting to him.. that he had an adult come in for her tonsils out who had ocd and she had binders and binders of info regarding strep and ocd.. but never did she use the word pandas I guess.. maybe because she is an adult... he told her to call and let him know if it helped any (she must have said this is why she wanted it) and he said she never called.. but she was so ocd about it that her not calling could have been a good sign that maybe she wasn't so ocd about it still

 

That said the nurse or whoever the person who first talked to us at the ENT was asking questions and I mentioned my pandas ds who was not with me... she had not heard the term pandas but when I talked about his throat clearing tic she said WAIT we had a child come in for frequent strep and who kept clearing his throat but we couldn't find a medical reason... I think she had a total lightbulb moment about some patients of theirs and I felt good that they were a bit intrigued. I will be taking my ds in to be checked soon.. OH and when I asked if he would put my dd on prophylactic antibiotics before he said just to remind him prior because he usually only does that for after surgery but he understood why..phew.. AND even though he had not heard of pandas he said that he definitely thinks her constant tummyaches could be connected and that he has had parents report to him that their kids tummyaches were better after.... CROSSING MY FINGERS... Of course he said that this doesn't mean she can't still get strep but that the benefits outweight the risks for her to have it done...

 

Another interesting thing was that my dd's tonsils are pretty small.. he actually said that is quite common for kids who get strep and throat infections and that once out we might see they are just flattened.. he also said that her pain tolerance for it is probably so high because of the frequency which is why when I got strep I was in such pain and she just says once that her throat hurts and then goes on her merry way. He said she has likely just gotten used to it.

 

He didn't scope her adenoids.. said that it is standard to take them out too... My son will need to be scoped though since not sure his tonsils coming out is going to be a clear cut decision... .. he won't be a happy camper.

[thereishope]

It's scary to think of a 2 yr old going through surgery. They do say the younger the child, the easier the recovery w/ t and a. My 5 year old's recovery was actually easy. Did they talk at all about anesthesia and the possible effects on a 2 yr old with an elective surgery, or do they not really see it as elective, but something that needs to be done?

 

My son had his t and a surgery at a children's hopsital and they even let him sit on my lap as they put him under. It wasn't as traumatic as I thought it would be.

[thereishope]

double post

[P_Mom]

Yeah...I was wondering the same thing...and the symptoms in a 2 year old (body imaging)...then I thought...maybe she meant dd2 as in dd1 and dd2. Maybe.....