Vaccines/Alum

[kim]

Reminder about having no medical background here, so if anyone can comment on (agreement or error) my way of thinking here, would luv to hear it. Seems this might be something parents would want to run by their childs Dr. prior to subsequent alum containing vaccines.

 

 

Reading thru the "Phenotype" thread and the remarks about autoimmune issues in families, made me want to share something that has been nagging at me since I read it.

Wondering if this raises red flags for any of you. I'm really surprised that there hasn't been more discussion regarding this on some of the sites that I scan almost daily. When these tendencies run in families, I have to wonder what part this could play in pushing some of our youngest into the autoimmune abyss. Could non excreted alum contribute to altered immune function? Could activating inflammasomes regularly at an early age somehow alter the immune system function?

 

If toll-like receptors normally are first responders to microbes (some?) and you bypass them and activate inflammasomes (artificially with alum) I wondered what other mechanisms of the immune response might be altered. I had posted this article on the TS forum within the past week or so. Yesterday, I read the 2nd article. Toll like recptors signal vitamin A enzymes which protect against autoimmunity. But wait, we bypassed the toll like receptors and activated inflammosomes. What happens to the autoimmune protection that might have occured with natural infection? Gee, seems they would have wanted to have an idea about all of this prior to such widespread use of alum in such immature immune systems (or mature ones for that matter).

 

If you read the whole article you will see discussion of Nalp3. Mice with no Nalp3=no response to alum. Well, what happens to someone with a polymorphism that upregulates Nalp3......hyperinflammation? The 3rd article seems to suggest this in at least one autoimmune related disease.

 

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsrelease...lum_vaccine.htm

 

Scientists Discover How Common Vaccine

Booster Works

 

Currently the only vaccine adjuvants licensed for general use in the United States are aluminum hydroxide/phosphate formulations, known as alum. Although alum has been used to boost the immune responses to vaccines for decades, no one has known how it works.

 

In this paper, the Yale team, led by Richard Flavell, M.D., Ph.D., and Stephanie Eisenbarth, M.D., Ph.D., examined the immune system pathway and cell receptors used by alum. Many microbial compounds function as adjuvants by stimulating Toll-like receptors. These receptors identify microbial invaders and alert the body to the presence of a disease-causing agent, or pathogen. Alum, however, does not stimulate Toll-like receptors. The Yale team found that alum stimulates clusters of proteins called inflammasomes, found inside certain cells. Inflammasomes respond to stresses such as infection or injury by releasing immune cell signaling proteins called cytokines. Inflammasomes are a component of the innate immune system that operates in parallel with, but separate from, Toll-like receptors, also part of the innate immune system.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19252500

 

2009 Apr;15(4):401-9. Epub 2009 Mar 1.

 

Toll-like receptor 2-dependent induction of vitamin A-metabolizing enzymes in dendritic cells promotes T regulatory responses and inhibits autoimmunity.

 

Manicassamy S, Ravindran R, Deng J, Oluoch H, Denning TL, Kasturi SP, Rosenthal KM, Evavold BD, Pulendran B.

Emory Vaccine Center, and Yerkes National Primate Research Center, 954 Gatewood Road, Atlanta, Georgia 30329, USA.

 

Immune sensing of a microbe occurs via multiple receptors. How signals from different receptors are coordinated to yield a specific immune response is poorly understood. We show that two pathogen recognition receptors, Toll-like receptor 2 (TLR2) and dectin-1, recognizing the same microbial stimulus, stimulate distinct innate and adaptive responses. TLR2 signaling induced splenic dendritic cells (DCs) to express the retinoic acid metabolizing enzyme retinaldehyde dehydrogenase type 2 and interleukin-10 (IL-10) and to metabolize vitamin A and stimulate Foxp3(+) T regulatory cells (T(reg) cells). Retinoic acid acted on DCs to induce suppressor of cytokine signaling-3 expression, which suppressed activation of p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase and proinflammatory cytokines. Consistent with this finding, TLR2 signaling induced T(reg) cells and suppressed IL-23 and T helper type 17 (T(H)17) and T(H)1-mediated autoimmune responses in vivo. In contrast, dectin-1 signaling mostly induced IL-23 and proinflammatory cytokines and augmented T(H)17 and T(H)1-mediated autoimmune responses in vivo. These data define a new mechanism for the systemic induction of retinoic acid and immune suppression against autoimmunity.

 

 

bolding mine

http://www.hu.liu.se/content/1/c6/08/78/08...0PSORIASIS1.pdf

 

GENETIC ANALYSIS OF PSORIASIS

In collaboration with the Swedish Psoriasis Association, a large patient sample has been

collected with blood samples for DNA analysis. The main purpose has been to demonstrate

the genetic contribution to the disease and to localise susceptibility genes.

Psoriasis is a heterogeneous disease in which several reports suggest the presence of a

susceptibility gene in or in the proximity of the HLA complex in chromosome 6p. There is an

association between HLA-Cw6 and young onset of the disease. Psoriasis may show an

enormous variation in duration, extent and morphology but the genetic basis for these clinical

variations are poorly defined.

Inflammasomes are cytoplasmic multiprotein complexes that mediate the maturation of

proinflammatory cytokines. There is evidence for a critical role of the NALP inflammasomes

in innate immunity and inflammatory diseases. For instance, polymorphisms in the gene

coding for NALP3 were recently shown to associate with interleukin-1 production and severe

inflammation. The aim of this study is to define genetic variations in NALP3 and other related

genes in a psoriasis patient sample and to correlate these variants with different aspects of the

disease. In this way, individuals with a high risk of a severe disease may be identified

 

 

You can see a list of alum containing vaccines here

 

Vaccine excipients including alum

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:21r3WC...=clnk&gl=us

[kim]

In light of the recent flu scare and recent remarks on another thread about kids getting/not getting live viral vaccines, thought I would share this. Along the same lines of what I was rambling about above.

 

http://www.physorg.com/news160659764.html

 

Scientists learn why the flu may turn deadly

 

May 4th, 2009 As the swine flu continues its global spread, researchers from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, have discovered important clues about why influenza is more severe in some people than it is in others.

and

 

Sullivan and colleagues recruited pediatric patients with severe influenza and examined the level of cytokines, which serve as the first line initiators of immune response, in the blood plasma. Although they found elevated levels of cytokines, they also found a decreased response of toll-like receptors, which activate immune cell responses as a result of invading microbes. This suggests that the diminished response of these receptors may be responsible for the paralysis of the immune system, leading to secondary bacterial infections.

 

 

 

Sure brings many questions to my mind

[dcmom]

Okay- I do not have a mind for science

 

My dd was just diagnosed with pandas this year. She has had all/most of her major vaccines, and I was planning on delaying and/or not getting any more for a while. I certainly wasn't planning on the flu vaccine next year. But now of course the swine flu happens.

 

Do these studies suggest that pandas kids could be in more danger? I assume most would not get the vaccine (if they create one)?

 

Please try to break this down a little for me....

[bronxmom2]

I have also had this on my mind recently... and also don't seem to have enough brain power right now to read the medical studies.

 

Kim, please do summarize these for us if you can!

 

I have a one-year old who was due for vaccines today, but I asked to delay them. The dr. said, predictably, that there is no proof to link vaccinnes with any syndrome, including autism.

 

OK, OK, OK, I said.

 

PANDAS children have uncooperative immune systems, right?

 

My theory is that, having one child with a rogue immune system, the odds of having another are high. This is enough to make me hesitate before stimulating the baby's immune system.

 

The Science section of today's NYTimes had an article about the 1918 flu. It seemed to be deadliest in healthy young adults-- people with the strongest immune systems: "The reason may be that the immune system of a healthy person responds with too much force when it detects a new virus, filling the lungs with fluid... In 1918 there were reports of people dying within hours of developing symptoms. 'That doesn't happen because you have a particularly virulent flu. That happens because the whole body went bananas.'

 

Also, my experience with PANDAS has changed the way I view the concept of medical "proof"-- since, after all, the NIH does not recommend antibiotics or T&A as treatment for PANDAS, but rather, for christsake, behavior therapy! I now believe the concept of medical "proof" is much too narrow.

[kim]

bronxmom/dcmom,

 

I wish i could break things down for you! I guess what strikes me about the things posted, is the diversity of what might be causing problems.

 

bronxmom, when you said

 

The reason may be that the immune system of a healthy person responds with too much force when it detects a new virus, filling the lungs with fluid... In 1918 there were reports of people dying within hours of developing symptoms

 

i sure could relate. Juggling making sure the immune system is strong enough to clear viral/bacterial illness and worrying about inflammatory responses is awful.

 

I think many of us are caught wondering what would be worse (immunization or the illness itself) if the flu scare winds up again in the fall and a new immunization is being widely recommended or worse yet, mandated. It scares the daylights outta me.

 

I did want to share something reassuring about the "new flu" in it's current state . Sure hated the phrase "cytokine storm" and glad it's not currently associated!

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/...-lethal-threat/

 

Genetic Analysis of the Swine Flu Virus May Indicate a Less Lethal Threat

 

While much more work needs to be done to truly understand the new virus, researchers also reported that there seems to be nothing unusual as yet in another protein in the centre of the virus, called NS1, which is linked to the strength of the immune response the virus produces. In some more pathogenic viruses, it is this NS1 protein which initiates a “cytokine storm”, a particularly severe immune reaction that can be fatal in even healthy young people [bBC News].

 

 

One of the things we have been hearing over and over is it may re emerge in the fall as something worse. I wonder if they spend billions to develope a vaccine, if there is going to be pressure to USE it, even if there is no good evidence for it.

 

I have to run right now, but will get back to this thread!

[kim]

The dr. said, predictably, that there is no proof to link vaccinnes with any syndrome, including autism.

You might also point out to him that two large studies (i think there may be a third) which are acknowledged by the CDC HAVE found a statistically significant correlation betwn thimerosal exposure through vaccination (higher amt thimerosal=higher incidence of tics). It was just passed off as sort of a "curious" replication of the Denmark(?) study. David Kirby (author of Evidence of Harm) wrote an article on this subject

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/...s-_b_66007.html

 

 

bronxmom, I hope next time you can tell your Dr. that as long as the studies that say "no correlation exists" are being conducted by the same same people who stand to gain the most (or avoid legal prosecution or public flogging!) well, this debate is not going away. In fact it's gaining momentum. Check out the conflict of interests on this page

 

http://fourteenstudies.org/studies.html

 

Read the studies on site that DO favor a relationship (you know the ones that you WILL NOT hear on the local or national news). Environmental toxins are rampant too, yet the "gene" is what they keep looking for. I'm not against that, any little piece to a big puzzle is welcome, just that so many things are already very well known to effect the immune system and cause neuro problems, but they just slide by without hardly any mention.

 

Anyway, wanted to leave this here. Posted on the TS forum a little while ago.

 

I heard a little snippet on Fox news this morning. Wasn't sure I heard right. Something was said about the new swine flu originating in eggs used for vaccine production (something like that). I just got a chance to search the net for anything relating to what I thought I heard. Several searches turned up nothing. Finally went to the FOX news site and lo and behold. Will be interesting to see if the "discredit the researcher" game begins, or if the waters can be muddied to the point that it just fades into the woodwork as the fear of a fall pandemic takes center stage.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519976,00.html

 

Report: World Health Organization Investigating Claims of Human Error Behind Swine Flu Virus

 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=afrdATVXPEAk

 

Swine Flu May Be Human Error; WHO Investigates Claim

 

 

Susan posted what may have been an adverse reaction to Tflu or possibly the flu itself on this thread also

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4691

 

this link discusses personal experience with T flu

 

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?...mp;name=TAMIFLU

[kim]

People with a severe form of psoriasis who use human biologicals like Enbrel, Humara etc. (one of these is sometimes used to treat crohn's, i believe) are at an increased risk of lymphoma. From reading psoriasis forums, it sounds like the flu and pneumonia vaccinces are almost mandatory before the use of those products because of the drugs effect of suppressing the immune system. That's what originally caught my eye about this. So pregnant women are being encouraged to get a flu vaccine now, with some studies showing that it's affecting the fetus's immune system too. So will we have a mystery "huge increase" in non hodgkin's lymphoma in little kids some day, and will they say that it's just better reporting/earlier diagnosis on that too?! Wonder where the urgent follow up to this study is?

 

I wondered what "Cancer Causes Control" refered too in the first sentence so i looked it up

 

 

http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-fo...une_system.html

 

June 1, 2009 - Vaccination alters the immune system - FoodConsumer.org - "A new study published online on Nov 15, 2008 and scheduled to appear in the July 2009 issue of Cancer Causes Control suggests that some vaccines may increase risk of cancers such as non-Hodgkin lymphoma, while others may reduce the risk. The study led by H. A. Lankes and colleagues at Feinberg School of Medicine of Northwestern University showed influenza vaccination was linked to a 53 percent increase in the risk of NHL. Factors that alter the immune system have been known to affect the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. But previous studies are inconsistent. Lankes and colleagues analyzed data on 387 patients with NHL and 535 controls who were enrolled in a study conducted in Nebraska between 1999 and 2002. Considered information included vaccination for tetanus, polio, influenza, smallpox, and tuberculosis, as well as important environmental factors - data collected by telephone interview. They found that study participants who had an influenza vaccine at any time were at a 98 percent increased risk of follicular lymphoma and at an 88 percent increased risk of diffuse large B cell lymphoma."

 

 

http://www.springer.com/biomed/cancer/journal/10552

 

Description

Cancer Causes & Control is an international refereed journal that both reports and stimulates new avenues of investigation into the causes, control, and subsequent prevention of cancer. Its multidisciplinary and multinational approach draws together information published in a diverse range of journals.