neurotransmitters

[kim]

Faith,

 

I thought I would do this on a new thread so Michelle's didn't get cluttered up.

 

I think this stuff is interesting because once you know at least a little about it, you can get more out of current reseach. Don't count on anything that I say as being completely accurate, and anyone feel free to join the discussion, or correct me. These thoughts are just to the best of my ability.

 

So having high dopamine is not a good thing for tics, but is it preferable for those with ADHD?

Not high or low Faith. We need Goldilocks neurotransmitters. "Just right."

 

That's why identifying what is causing them to go wrong in the first place is so important.

 

Take a look at this page. You are looking at two neuron cells, or rather a part of them

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SynapseIllustration2.svg

 

The axon terminal in the top part

 

The synaptic cleft (the space between the neurons)

 

and part of the post synaptic neuron..the dendritic spine.

 

See that reuptake pump?

 

Now look at this page on Methylphenidate contained in Ritalin, commonly used to treat ADHD.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

 

Methylphenidate is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant,[9][10][11] reducing impulsive behavior, and facilitating concentration on work and other tasks. Adults who have ADHD often report that methylphenidate increases their ability to focus on tasks and organize their lives.

 

and

 

Methylphenidate is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant,[9][10][11] reducing impulsive behavior, and facilitating concentration on work and other tasks. Adults who have ADHD often report that methylphenidate increases their ability to focus on tasks and organize their lives.

 

and

 

The means by which methylphenidate helps people with ADHD are not well understood. Some researchers have theorized that ADHD is caused by a dopamine imbalance in the brains of those affected. Methylphenidate is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, which means that it increases the level of the dopamine neurotransmitter in the brain by partially blocking the transporters that remove it from the synapses.[15]

*Gotta go get a throat culture. Little one is sick with a big old white spot.

[kim]

Ok, just got back from the Dr. (just kidding) Quick strep was negative. Was given a script for Pen VK and said to get it filled if fever went up, or throat got worse. He has had those spots on and off, with and without strep, forever. He really felt bad though. I think it's the thing that has been going around. Everyone seems to have had the sore throat, bronchial, head cold virus. He's feeling a lot better today, thankfully.

 

Anyway, about the dopamine. When a drug blocks that pump or partially blocks it, it leaves more dopamine in the synapsis, for the post synaptic neuron to use.

I never had a clue what an SSRI was. I knew it stood for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but that phrase never made sense. I though "uptake" would be a good thing. Now I get it. That presynaptic neuron will release a neurotransmitter, then suck some of it back out of the synopsis (using the reuptake pump), to be reused later. When that pump is blocked, it can't "reuptake." That is the same thing some of the drugs do with dopamine.

 

Now, if it's thought that dopamine needs to be increased in an ADHD situation, but is thought to be at least partially responsible for tics, how does that work?

 

This was an interesting (and scary) article, again regarding Ritalin. I wonder if similar studies have been done with other drugs commonly prescribed for these disorders. This study seems to suggest that D2 receptors decrease with age naturally, but may be permanently altered with ritalin use? Maybe that's why some kids with tics actually do better when they are first placed on ritalin, but end up with tics, if used longer term? Either way, it seems as though attention problems would either get better, and tics worse, or vise versa, if you are looking at only dopamine and D2 receptors, which would make your statement basically right Faith.

 

So having high dopamine is not a good thing for tics, but is it preferable for those with ADHD?

Study on ritalin

 

http://newideas.net/adhd/medication/stimulant-use-drug-use

 

This new study provides evidence that chronic methylphenidate treatment begun in adolescence affects the brain's dopamine D2 receptor levels, and thus the brain's reward circuitry, differently depending on the age and treatment duration," Thanos said. The scientists' observation of lower rates of cocaine self-administration in the animals treated for eight months with a 2kg/mg dose of methylphenidate supports this idea.

 

However, the observation of lower levels of D2 receptors after two months of treatment suggests that shorter lengths of treatment or the age at which treatment is evaluated could result in different effects. "Lower dopamine D2 receptor levels following short-term treatment could make the animals more vulnerable to drug self-administration during early adulthood," Thanos said. "Unfortunately, we cannot compare cocaine self-administration following eight months of treatment with that obtained after two months of treatment in the same animals, since animals were not tested for cocaine self-administration at this earlier time," Thanos said. "We wanted to avoid any confounding effect that might have resulted from cocaine exposure during this early developmental stage," he explained.

[faith]

kim

thanks for all that. makes me feel there's not much hope for those dealing with both issues (and much more), for if the medical community doesn't exactly know how these meds help (ritalin for ADHD), then how can we? I don't really deal with ADHD but sometimes I toy with wanting to try things that are thought to be helpful in that area hoping to cover some bases like mild inattention, difficult behavior, etc., but don't because I'm afraid of increase in tics, - that is always my main concern.

 

and just to add more confusion, what about the ssri's as you mention (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors)? As a note, I myself take zoloft for last few years, and I can tell you it does NOT help at all with some of the compulsions (i.e. tapping) or restless leges that I have mentioned I had. I guess, as you say, there must be a certain balance of all the neutrotransmitters.

 

Oh well,

I kind of get the feeling that the most success with ADHD issues comes from elimination diets, as opposed to supplemental. Just my observation so far. Correct me anyone, if I am wrong?

 

Faith