Supplements?

[Guest Betty Cole]

Hello everyone,

I have entered the world of vitamin supplements and am so confused. I tried the BonnieG program for my six year old son,and although it was really working I can't get them into him anymore. I just can't mask the taste.

So now I am really interested in the combination of mag/cal/zinc that I am reading about.

My first question is what kind of magnesium do I need to give him? If it is not taurate can I add Taurine seperately? Also how do I determine how much of each he needs? He has vocal tics that are pretty mild but none the less quite annoying.

Thanks for all the great support

Betty

[Guest Nancy]

Hi Betty,

 

It sure can be confusing, can't it?! We've been doing it for awhile and I'm still adjusting things at times. We've had good luck following Bonnie's plan for the most part, but I started buying the supplements separately only because of cost and there are fewer pills to take. I know some people do take a calcium/mag/zinc combo, but the ones I"ve seen only have magnesium oxide, which is no good, so we do them separately. I get magnesium taurate at the VitaminShoppe store near my home - the ONLY place I've ever found it other than Bonnie's plan. They come in 125 mg. capsules, so my son takes 4 or 5 a day, for between 500--625 mg a day (or course you'd need to start out slow and only use as much as he seems to need). You can also order it online from VitaminShoppe.com. Since we use the mag taurate I don't give taurine separately, but you can if you're using another kind of magnesium (glycinate is also good). I give almost everything else in Bonnie's plan according to the amounts recommended by her plan. We've had good luck, and my son is doing well - most people have never noticed his tics. He's never had a problem swallowing them, so we've been lucky. If there's a way to talk your son into trying the straw technique, maybe it would work for him? Maybe a little bribery just to get him to TRY it? Good luck to you!

 

Nancy

[Guest Guest]

Nancy,

Thanks so much for your information. The biggest problem is that I can't get my son to swallow a capsule. they are so big and he won't do it by any means. So I am concerned that if I buy the supplements seperately I won't be able to get them down Opening up the Bonnie supplements just taste awful no matter what we do. However, last night we had a "situation' that may change things again.

Jeremy is six years old and hasn't seemed to bothered by his tics. He came home from school yesterday and expressd that he felt like he was interuppting the class all day with his sounds. even though no one said anything to hurt his feelings he was upset. I was heartbroken and cried all night. We have all been there. So he said he would try the supplements again. He took them last night and this morning without a fuss. I am so glad that today is Friday and I will have all weekend to get them into him. I hope it makes a difference for Monday when he returns to school.

Best wishes,

Betty

[Chemar]

Yay for Betty's son!!!!

That is exactly what happened with my son when he realised that having intense tics was far worse than getting the dreaded supps in.

Betty....I also feel your tears as I have sure been there and it is SO hard to have our kids hurting physically or emotionally....wish I could give you a great big hug of support! Just keep surrounding him with your love and reminding him how precious he is. He is blessed to have you for a mom.

 

 

 

Nancy,

that is interesting news about the VitaminShoppe and mag taurate We dont have any stores by that name here but i will check it out online.

At present I use the 'Origin' cal/mag/zinc combo, which is mag glycinate and no nasty stuff, and i give a separate TwinLab taurine cap.

[Guest Betty Cole]

Chemar and nancy, thanks so much!

I just posted tis on nother ight and hope I get a lot of advice. Chemar, what do you think?

The vocal tics have got to be the worst! I could use help from anyone who has been here before.

Just to update...my son gave up on the Bonnie G supplements because of the taste and he wouldn't swallow at all. Within two days his vocal tic came back WORSE. He came home from his third day at first grade and was upset. Until now he has never talked that much about his tics and seemed unbothered. The poor boy said he felt like he was interupting his class all day and hated the noises he makes. Although no one teased him, I ws heart broken for him. Then to my surprise he said, "I want to start taking my yucky vitamins again so all my tics will go away" I was really proud. SO, he has been back on for two days and I know it can take a while but the voacl tics are really bad. Does anyone have any advice at all????

With all my good wishes for you and your children,

Betty (Jeremy's mom)

------------------

[Chemar]

The vocal tics do seem so tough to cope with dont they!

 

It is kinda hard to hide them

 

My son had one where it became blended with OCD and he had to yell a certain way to get the feeling the vibration made at the back of his throat!!! It went on for weeks and he couldnt even get to school, or get to sleep....and driving in the car was TORTURE as he just yelled out every few minutes! He HATED it but couldnt stop it! Those really were the worst tics for me to see him go thru...when they blend with OCD it can become alarming and even scary...

BUT

that was in the bad old med days, and before we started the supps and especially the ones that help the OCD

Since we have him on those things are miraculously better! Tics and OCD and even the ADD/SID is immensely improved.

 

I posted earlier today on another thread here just which supps we use and I am going to copy it here just in case it can be helpful.

l-carnitine and taurine have greatly helped the tics, and I also really like the Royal Jelly effect in stabilizing general tics. It is a mega-nutrient and has loads of good stuff in it for general health, but many specific to helping tics too.

 

here is our basic system:

 

I use a number of different brands and have basically two criteria

They must be pure (no artificial color, flavor, propylene glycol or other "fillers")

and they need to fit my budget which is very tight.

 

The combinations that I give come close to the overall doses recommended in Bonnie's original research http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5207/ts_ma...bonnie_sup.html

and I have added some other things that she also now recommends in her new program http://www.BonnieGr.com and ones that I have determined to be good for my son from my own research and enquiries

 

I give a basic morning group of

 

1 multivitamin/mineral (the multi has all the good antioxidants etc, and is high in the B group vits, and I add a B1)

1 combo flax/borage/omega-3(fish) oil plus 1 Lecithin

1 combo cal/mag/zinc

1 taurine

2 ginko biloba(for ADD)

1 St Johns Wort (for OCD)

1 l-Carnitine

1 Royal Jelly

 

 

 

in the evening he gets

 

1 5HTP (for OCD)

1 Inositol(for OCD)

1 Evening Primrose Oil

1 Methionine

1 coQ10

1 GrapeSeed extract

1 Bilberry(for vision)

 

Sometimes, if the need arises, I add a B-CO(NO IRON!!) to the mix

That is the basic outline of what he gets, and of course we watch the diet VERY carefully so he eats healthy good stuff, no artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners and NO HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, no caffeine and mimimal sugar(we only use pure Turbinado sugar) he likes pure dark chocolate, and is allowed some of that, and i try to make most things from scratch and use honey and maple syrup for flavor.

 

It sounds overwhelming but once you get into the routine, and start reaping the benefits, it is SO worthwhile. I actually dispense the pills into Ziploc snack bags and do a week's worth at a time then label them "morning" or "evening" and so it makes it easier

 

 

Betty

It may be my imagination, but I see a link in vocal tics and either stress/illness/allergy/food substance reactivity.

Make sure he is not getting those yucky artificial tic triggers especially Aspartame(NutraSweet and food coloring and high fructose corn syrup)

It may just help to keep the vocal tics down

[Guest betty Cole]

Chemar,

Once again you amaze me with your knowledge. How lucky your family is to have you. I can't help but wonder how you learned so much about supplements and what works. I posted my same question on the other forum and Kt mom suggested to add Twin Lab 250mg Inositol/Choline for the vocal tics. I am so confused with what to do. I am also concerned that I may be giving my son (57pounds) too much of anything for his body. How do you figure out what safe levels are? We are up to 8 Bonnie capsules a day and 1 Clonodine . I am so proud of Jeremy. He is taking it medicine style off a spoon hidden in lime juice and a fruit blend. It is still so gross, I can't imagine getting him to take too much more since it is still a bit of a struggle. If you had to suggest to add 1 more thing would it be the Taurine?????

I am such a novice, without support like yours I would feel helpless.

Bets Wishes,

Betty

[Chemar]

Betty

yes

I would choose the Taurine with the Omega3 running pretty neck on neck.

You are focussing on tics...and for tics the overall supps in Bonnie's TS-control are the best....other stuff may help too, but you can add those in time and when he feels more comfortable swallowing down whole caps and pills.

 

I had to learn REAL quickly as my son suffered severe side effects during the year on his meds(Haldol/Luvox) and then went into toxic shock when withdrawing from those and starting Zyprexa.......I had to do something so...........I devoured every bit of information and asked endless questions till We were blessed to be referred to a holistic pediatrician who runs her practice from both sides....she prescribes meds, with very careful consideration of the individual and knowledge of the potential problems the med can cause....but also offers alternative treatments like supplemental, environmental etc. She told me about Bonnie (at that time her supps werent on the market, just her plan....) and also directed me to a lot of other research to help me understand WHY these alternative methods worked to CORRECT imbalances and deficiencies and so make things better, but not in the drastic way that the meds do. She also educated me on environmental medicine and allergy effects plus the strep/PANDAs stuff etc etc. I have a background in Med Research, so delving deeper came pretty easy and the more I learnt the more things made sense .

 

And, of course, the best reinforcement was actually seeing the positive results in my son........

[Guest Betty]

Chemar, How lucky for you and your son to have found a Dr. like you did. Thank you for your advice I will give it a try and let you know how it goes. Have agreat day!

Betty

[Guest Robin]

Chemar, i was wondering about the Royal Jelly supplement you are giving your son. Where do you order it from. There are so many sites on the web and i want to get a quality brank. My son has TS, OCD and ADD. We are on Bonnies program with moderate success. Since school started my sons tics have increased alot!! and he is very anxious. When i saw you give your son Royal Jelly i thought i might add this and see if it helps. What benefits do you see for the TS, OCD.

Thanks for all your posts. Robin

[Guest Nancy]

Betty,

 

I agree - the vocal tics do seem the hardest to deal with. My son had long periods of high pitched squeaking this summer, and when I was feeling stressed out it just about sent me up the wall. He'd watch tv and just "peep" (as my husband and I called it) continuously. I'd just go upstairs so I wasn't tempted to say something to him, but his younger brother would sit right there next to him and NEVER commented on it. This went on for a long, loud time, and my younger son never seemed to care. He's actually never commented on any of his brother's tics, which just reinforces what I know is true - kids don't notice a lot of what other kids do, or just don't care that much - at least at a younger age (my guys are now 8 & 6). I did increase his inositol recently, and even with school starting, so far his tics are really mild. Except for after their birthday parties recently (2 in one weekend - I must be crazy), when I swear his vocal stuff acted up for a few days. I don't know if it's the sugar/corn syrup or dyes, but there really seems to be a connection. Anyway, I just always try to remember, this too shall pass.

 

Chemar,

Can you please verify if 500 mg total per day of inositol and other forms of B3 is considered safe even for an 8 year old weighing about 60 lbs? I know I shouldn't go over that, I just want to be sure it's ok to go up to that. Also, if you wouldn't mind posting over in the OCD forum, Alan had a question about inositol for OCD, and noone seems to be answering. I think you have a lot more information that might help him. Thanks so much! I continue to learn so much reading these forums!

 

Nancy

[Guest Guest]

Hi Nancy

 

I really am not sure about that dose for a 60lb child.

 

I know that in Bonnie's original plan she has 50mg added Inositol as ok....I have my son on the 500mg as this was recommended by his physician to help control the OCD. My son is nearly 14 and 140+lbs.

 

If I were you I would email Bonnie(BonnieGr@aol.com) and ask her advice on the max you should supplement to in a younger child with lower weight.

I know she posted about this before either here or on BrainTalk, but just cant locate it now.

 

HTH

[Chemar]

oops...just noticed i wasnt logged in when i made that last post....

[Guest Guest_efgh]

hi

 

Are bonnies' supplements capsules or tablets?? is it possible to break the capsules and dissolve with some food and give it to kids?

chemar, you mentioned l-carnitine for tics? what is l-carnitien and is it also a part of bonnie's ts plus control?

[Chemar]

hi efgh

yes, Bonnie's supps are capsules that can be opened up.

 

From iHerb's Natural Pharmacy:

L-carnitine is  an amino acid the body uses to turn fat into energy. It is not normally considered an essential nutrient because the body can manufacture all it needs. However, supplemental carnitine may improve the ability of certain tissues to produce energy. This effect has led to the use of carnitine in various muscle diseases.

 

Bonnie does not include it because not everyone with TS is deficient in nor responsive to L-carnitine.

 

It is usually suggested to try it WITHOUT any other supps first (other than the regular multivit)

 

If there is a noticeable tic decrease, it is probably needed!

Some people use it with other supps, like we do, and some just with a multi as they find it suffiecient for their needs.