Soy

[kim]

Interesting discussion

 

although I have no experiential or expert opinion on soy and TS/tics, I would urge again to consider the unique biochemistry & metabolism of the INDIVIDUAL and also that there are VERY differing opinions by highly regarded medical professionals when it comes to soy. (eg Dr Weil=pro-soy and Dr Mercola=anti-soy)

 

The only soy product I use at home is Tamari sauce, but my son's absolute most favorite food is Japanese and when we do go out to eat we tend to choose one of our favorite and trusted(for good ingredients) Japanese restaurants...both hibachi and traditional.

My son LOVES miso soup and usually has at least two bowls of it when we eat there, and I have never once noticed an increase in tics from it....if anything, the opposite. He has always said (and I agree for myself) that miso soup gives him a feeling of goodness and health, and it is pure soy with a bit of kelp and scallion added

 

anyway..........that is in no way comparable to the crux of this discussion, which is primarily related to infant soy formula. There I can see why an attitude of caution is needed (but then I have that feeling re all infant formulae)!

 

 

Chemar,

 

As usual, you hit a nail right on the head!

 

A bowl of miso soup, and exlusive feeding of soy to infants, are worlds apart in potential problems IMO.

 

This page gives some good info on this topic

 

http://westonaprice.org/soy/ploy.html

 

Only a long period of fermentation will significantly reduce the phytate content of soybeans. Thus fermented products such as tempeh and miso provide nourishment that is easily assimilated,

 

Also, do you remember when I asked you if you knew anything about IP6, and it's effects as an immunomodulator?

 

In naturally fermented soy products, it looks like there ARE some good things going on! I suspect these are they types of things that make Dr. Weil try to keep some balance in the anti soy movement.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12594974

 

INTRODUCTION: Phytic acid or IP6 has been extensively studied in animals and is being promoted as an anti-cancer agent in health food stores. It is naturally found in legumes, wheat bran, and soy foods.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=17044765

 

Protection against cancer by dietary IP6 and inositol.

 

As usual, it seems to me, that the virtues of soy were promoted as far as feeding it to infants, and the possible negative effects were overlooked. Now, all of these years later, they will beat around the bush, and say, "Well.....maybe it's not such a good idea, but.....we need larger studies to prove it.

[faith]

Boy Kim, you sure know your way around the web.

 

You got me thinking, and reminded me I wanted to get the book THE SECOND BRAIN, by Dr. Michael Gershon.

 

Has anyone read it?

 

I'm stuck on the gut being the second brain, and having, " A hundred million neurotransmitters, line the gut, approximately the same as the brain."

 

In all my notes about raw milk and it being a perfect food, "One could live off it alone if one had to." The 60 plus enzymes, protein, vitamins, and amino acids. I'm finding myself wanting to know so much more about the gut and the brain connection. And how is my son benefiting from the raw milk.

 

My son also was NOT on soy as a child. In fact he has an allergy to it, tho we did not know until tests were done.

 

Interesting link on the neurotransmitters, I think I can even point out some effects these have on my husband.

 

C.P.

 

 

C.P. and others,

I had this saved on my favorites list I think when trying to figure out what and if my son had some sensory issues.............thought you might like to peruse this site since it mentions that "gut being the second brain" ..........it touches on some subjects being discussed here.....

 

http://www.spdbayarea.org/nutrition_and_SPD.htm

 

Faith

[kim]

It just burns me, in all of these articles where neuro problems are discussed, TS in NEVER mentioned. Why is that???

 

Confused About Soy?--Soy Dangers Summarized

 

Lots of soy links

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15955660

 

Neurobehavioral evaluation of rhesus monkey infants fed cow's milk formula, soy formula, or soy formula with added manganese.

 

This experiment suggests that components of soy formula, including Mn, may influence brain development as reflected in behavioral measures.

 

 

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/ab...ournalCode=nutr

 

Abstract

Annual Review of Nutrition

Vol. 24: 33-54 (Volume publication date July 2004)

(doi:10.1146/annurev.nutr.24.101603.064950)

 

First published online as a Review in Advance on January 8, 2004

ISOFLAVONES IN SOY INFANT FORMULA: A Review of Evidence for Endocrine and Other Activity in Infants*

 

Aimin Chen and ­ Walter J. Rogan­

Epidemiology Branch, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709; email: chen17@niehs.nih.gov, rogan@niehs.nih.gov

 

Soy infant formulas are widely used, but few studies have evaluated long-term safety or examined specific forms of toxicity, such as to the endocrine or immune systems. This review focuses on newer experimental studies of the effects on estrogen activity, immune function, and thyroid economy of genistein and daidzein, two isoflavones in soy infant formula, and existing human studies of soy formula use. In order to judge the likelihood that an endpoint seen in laboratory studies might occur in soy-fed infants, we examined the doses and the resulting serum or plasma concentrations from the laboratory studies and compared them with doses and concentrations seen in soy-fed infants. We also summarized the estimates of the potency of the isoflavone compounds relative to estradiol. Given the scarcity and inconsistency of existing human data and the substantial laboratory evidence of hormonal and other activity at doses relevant to the soy-fed infant, we conclude that more clinical and epidemiological study is warranted.

[kim]

In March of 2006 14 Experts got together to review the safety of soy products. This study as far as I can tell (220+pages) was looking largely at reproductive effects, and Genistein in particular. About page 68, I zoned out. So, I skipped to this article

 

http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/chemicals/genis...r.niehs.nih.gov

 

Genistein - Expert Panel Conclusions

 

Even though there is a paucity of available human data on exposure to purified

genistein, the Expert Panel expresses negligible concern for reproductive and

developmental effects from exposure of adults in the general population. The most

highly exposed human population reported is Japanese adults with ingestion of total

genistein (free and complexed) of approximately 0.43 mg/kg body weight (bw)/day.

However, adverse effects in rodent studies were not observed at levels below 35–44

mg/kg bw/day. Therefore, the Expert Panel feels that under current exposure conditions,

adults would be unlikely to consume sufficient daily levels of genistein to cause adverse

reproductive and/or developmental effects.

The Expert Panel expresses negligible concern for adverse effects in neonates and

infants who may consume up to 0.01–0.08 mg/kg bw/day of genistein aglycone

contained in soy formula. . One member of the panel did not agree with this conclusion

and felt that a higher level of concern was warranted. It is noteworthy that about 1% of

total genistein in soy formula is present in its uncomplexed form, i.e., the aglycone

 

Soy Formula - Expert Panel Conclusion

 

There are insufficient human or experimental animal data available to permit a

determination of the developmental or reproductive toxicity of soy infant formula.

The conclusions noted above are those of the Genistein and Soy Formula Expert Panel

and should not be construed to represent the views of the NTP.

Next Steps

 

The final expert panel reports on genistein and soy formula will be posted on the CERHR

 

Then, I went hunting for the final recommendations Note; Negligible concern sure seemed to generate a long list critical date needs!

 

http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/chemicals/genis...patrick-soy.pdf

 

listed below are considered by the Expert Panel as critical data needs:

 

Data are needed to describe more carefully human infant exposure to isoflavones in soy infant

formula using biomarkers of exposure. These studies should consider use of formula type,

concomitant ingestion of other soy-containing compounds, and length of exposure.

 

Another case-control study to examine premature breast development in females and exposure to

soy infant formula is needed. This study should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical

power to detect meaningful differences.

 

A longitudinal cohort study to examine postnatal growth and neurobehavioral development of

healthy, full-term infants fed soy infant formula; these infants should be compared to breast-fed

or cow milk formula-fed infants, with particular attention paid to exposure conditions. This study

should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical power to detect meaningful differences.

 

Case-control studies are needed to examine reproductive endpoints, such as age at beginning of

puberty, early age at onset of menopause, endometriosis, uterine leiomyomata, and reproductive

organ carcinogenesis and neonatal exposure to soy infant formula and other soy products. These

studies should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical power to detect meaningful

differences. Longitudinal cohort studies should be identified that have the potential to evaluate

exposure to soy infant formula in relation to these outcomes, including age at onset of

menopause.

 

5.0 Summaries, Conclusions, and Critical Data Needs

189

A carefully controlled animal study is needed in which multiple doses of soy infant formula

and/or other soy products are used so that dose-response relationships can be determined. Careful

consideration should be given to the choice of animal model, mindful of metabolic differences

between species particularly in the formation of equol. Consideration should also be given to the

appropriateness of this animal model to the human neonate. This study could be of two parts, with

one part consisting of prenatal exposure only and evaluation of developmental endpoints; the

second part could be a multigenerational study with exposure continuing into adulthood and

evaluation of both reproductive and postnatal developmental endpoints. Nutritional differences in

animal diets need to be considered in these experiments.

 

A carefully controlled animal study is needed in which the effects of soy infant formula and/or

other soy products on ovarian follicle counts and early ovarian failure are evaluated.

6.0

[kim]

My impression is, when a neurotransmitter is low/blocked the body will compansate by producing MORE receptors. The sensitivity of existing ones can be affected to. Also, manganese and magnesium have similiar chemical structures. Is it possible that these babies bodies are predisposed to using manganese instead of magnesium. since the availability was greater in infancy?

 

 

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:LAy9O...;cd=1&gl=us

 

Manganese is an essential trace mineral, but high levels are neurotoxic to newborns. Infants fed soy infant formula ingest as much as 80 times more manganese per day than those who are breast fed. Although healthy toddlers, children and adults exposed to excess manganese can usually eliminate most of it, infants cannot because their immature livers are not fully functional. At the same time, their growing brains and other organs are highly susceptible to damage from neurotoxins. This article reviews research showing that neonates exposed to the high levels of manganese present in soy formula are at increased risk for neurodevelopmental abnormalities, including an impaired ability to make the neurotransmitter dopamine and damage to the substantia nigra, caudate, putamen and globus pallidus areas of the brain. These findings suggest that soy infant formula is a likely contributor to the epidemic of ADD/ADHD and other cognitive and behavioral disorders.

 

 

And

 

Triple threat man’ Manganese toxicity is a problem for people and animals of all ages, but represents a triple threat for infants. Newborns absorb more manganese because of their immature and permeable intestines, fail to eliminate excess manganese because of their immature livers, and are extremely vulnerable to manganese damage because their brains and other organs are still growing. By eight months of age, an infant on soy formula absorbs 1.1 mg of manganese per day above its metabolic need sand deposits about eight percent of that in the basal ganglia cells of the brain. Years later, this manganese may impair the brain’s ability to make the neurotransmitter dopamine and trigger behavioral problems ranging from Attention Deficit(ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders (ADHD) to violent and sociopathic behavior [8,17]. Bo Lonnerdal,Ph.D., of the University of California at Davis pulls no punches when he says, “Ingestion of soy-based formula in infancy could impair brain development [17].” Animals fed even small excesses of manganese during the first weeks of life have shown biochemical abnormalities followed by lesions in the substantia nigra, caudate, putamen and globus pallidus areas of the brain. These areas all depend upon dopamine production for proper function and relate to our abilities to think clearly and flexibly, focus, complete tasks andperform well under stress [6,18]. Trinh Tran, Ph.D., while working with Dr. Lonnerdal at UCDavis, found that baby rats given manganese chloride supplements at levels comparable to the manganese in soy-formula-fed infants showed no adverse effects until reaching adolescence.

[kim]

These articles have some interesting info other than the reference to soy, but thought I would post it here anyway. I am interested in the emerging studies on bisphenol A also.

 

This article does not mention the down side to Genestein. I found the statement in the 2nd article important, especially for regards to infant formula (as opposed to occasional consumption by adults of unprocessed soy.

 

Folate Shields Fetus Against Chemical in Plastics

 

Tuesday, July 31, 2007; 12:00 AM

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7073101030.html

 

TUESDAY, July 31 (HealthDay News) -- Fetal exposure to a chemical in

plastics can affect infant health, a new study shows, but folic acid, as

well as genistein, an active ingredient in soy, may both help protect

babies from those effects.

 

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/new...olinoyetal.html

 

Dolinoy, DC, D Huang and RL Jirtle. 2007. Maternal nutrient supplementation counteracts bisphenol A-induced DNA hypomethylation in early development. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, in press.

 

Genistein may counter this effect of BPA, but genistein itself has been linked to adverse effects following developmental exposure. According to Dr. Frederick vom Saal, an expert on endocrine disruption, "Trying to balance the effect of BPA with genistein would be like recommending that barbituates are fine if you also take methamphetamine. I can't imagine any physician would support that prescription." Bisphenol A works through multiple genetic pathways. There is no evidence to suggest that genistein is effective at balancing effects of BPA that are mediated by other mechanisms

 

 

Links to adverse effects

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/arc...le9%3Bgenistein

[kim]

I thought it might be worth bringing this thread up again, since it seems we have a lot of newer people here.

 

Ran across this new study, as I was serching Pub Med, for a study that showed an increase in tics with colds, for Faith,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?D...Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

Am J Ind Med. 2007 Oct 4; [Epub ahead of print]

 

Behavioral effects of subchronic inorganic manganese exposure in rats.

 

Manganese, an essential micronutrient, is a potential neurotoxicant in prolonged overexposure. Parkinson-like syndrome, motor deficit, disturbed psychomotor development are typical signs of neuropathological alterations due to Mn in humans.

 

and

 

Using complex methodology, new data were obtained regarding the relationship between the long-term effects of MnCl(2) at neuronal and behavioral level. Am. J. Ind. Med. © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

 

Interesting that they mention parkinsons. My understanding.......Parkinson's is the result of the death of neurons involved in dopamine production. It occurs to me, in all of my "research" that the body is always compensating for things that go wrong. Say, an infant is exposed to high levels of manganese in soy, some neurons are destroyed. If it was a presynaptic neuron, the post synaptic neuron may form more receptors, to compensate for the lack of dopamine that is crossing the gap. Could you end up with super sensitive dopamine receptors?