mycoplasma and meat protein

[jan251]

Can someone help me think this through a bit... In this older thread http://latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20566 I was reading about the importance of meat protein as long-standing myco uses up a lot of nutrients.

 

I will get the Buhner book mentioned in that thread from the library. Does mycoP "use up" meat protein, i.e. does meat feed mycoP? Could this be related to why meat protein sets off my son's IgG foods? And is the answer to avoid eating meat or eat tons of it?

 

I must be missing something...this probably sounds really dumb. Thoughts?

Edited December 2, 2014 by jan251

[pr40]

did you consider lyme? one of the symptoms is meat allergy. google it.

[rowingmom]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/11/21/165633003/rare-meat-allergy-caused-by-tick-bites-may-be-on-the-rise

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/health/meat-tick-bite-allergy/

[jan251]

Thank you - I am not especially worried about lyme per se (WB thru LabCorp was negative though I realize there is some controversy, he has no known history of bites, and zero IgE food allergies). What I found particularly interesting is that the type of galactose has been identified, according to that second article. Reminds me a bit about the glcnac mystery and makes me wonder whether the answer lies in correcting the immune disfunction somehow rather than avoiding meat forever. (Has something like ivig ever been used for correction of alergies? Just thinking out loud... I need to do some more reading about this when I can get back to my computer.

Edited November 28, 2014 by jan251

[rowingmom]

The overall negative outcome of the WB is unimportant. What is import is the number of reported lyme-specific bands. Do you have that information?

 

http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/wb.html

[kim]

Jan,

 

 

What I found particularly interesting is that the type of galactose has been identified, according to that second article.

 

 

where is that article?

[jan251]

But two allergists at the University of Virginia have gathered data showing that the food allergy Olive has, known as galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose, or alpha-gal for short, is affecting more than 1,500 Americans. The researchers suspect there are many more unidentified cases.

"The answer to the allergy is sugar," said Dr. Thomas Platts-Mills, who discovered the allergy with his junior colleague Dr. Scott Commins. They first published their findings in 2009.

Alpha-gal is essentially a bunch of sugars stuck together in the blood, which is in the meat of all non-primate mammals, including deer, cats and dogs. "We have seen anaphylaxis in France with horse and goat meat as well," Platts-Mills said.

 

 

 

from the cnn article that rowingmom linked above

Edited November 29, 2014 by jan251

[kim]

Wow

 

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3921

"Intellectually, it's such a cool allergy on so many levels," McGintee said. "It's a sugar, not a protein, and most food allergies occur in response to a protein antigen."

 

 

and

Dr. Scott Commins, an assistant professor of medicine at U.Va. and lead author of the study, explains that an allergic reaction occurs when the body produces antibodies—meant to defend against harmful bacteria or toxins—against an otherwise benign substance, the allergen. When antibodies bind to the allergen, certain cells release histamine, which in turn causes symptoms such as swelling, hives and breathing problems.

 

 

Jan I was reading the other thread on this forum that you had originally linked and totally missed what Pr40 and rowingmom had posted. I googled a little and found similiar articles, sure could explain some unusual reactions around here (allergy type response to what appears to be a bacterial infection). If this can happen btwn lyme and meat, seems it could happen in other infections. One of my kids tested IgE high to almost all of the grains. Wheat Germ Agglutinin binds N acetyl glucosamine, so that has always kinds of stuck in the back of my mind. I have also read that it (WGA) can cross the BBB and take other things with it. I guess I'm really just trying to digest the fact that the body can develope an allergy response to a sugar.

 

Let me complicate this just a little further. I'm not linking this because of anything to do with a vaccine, just thought the mention of

"Human DCs and macrophages bind agalactosyl IgG, found in several autoimmune diseases, which has the terminal galactose residues removed, thus exposing N-acetylglucosamine and providing a binding site for the MR.27"

 

interesting. Not sure that has anything to do with anything, just something that I had saved

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6309/

 

When you asked

Does mycoP "use up" meat protein, i.e. does meat feed mycoP?

 

I was wondering if it's the amino acids in the meat that needs to be replaced. I remember reading where one of the DAN dr.s talked about getting the "jelly," that cooks out of meat into kids (that was a long time ago and I can't remeber who said it).

 

 

And is the answer to avoid eating meat or eat tons of it?

 

 

Are you thinking along the same lines as we discussed with N acetyl glucosamine, as in bind a receptor (beneficial) or avoid an irritant?

Edited November 29, 2014 by kim

[jan251]

I was wondering if it's the amino acids in the meat that needs to be replaced. I remember reading where one of the DAN dr.s talked about getting the "jelly," that cooks out of meat into kids (that was a long time ago and I can't remeber who said it).

 

Great Lakes Gelatin? Just a hunch... not sure if that's what you mean (I have some of that in my pantry - been meaning to make fruit gummies with it - has a lot of glucosamine and such, if I recall correctly. I've been wanting to try the beef as the pork one has a bit of a scent to me)

 

And is the answer to avoid eating meat or eat tons of it?

 

Are you thinking along the same lines as we discussed with N acetyl glucosamine, as in bind a receptor (beneficial) or avoid an irritant?

 

yes, that's exactly what I was wondering re: meat protein as important per Buhner in cases of mycoP but the meat showing up on my son's IgG foods.

 

So late last night I read a snip of the Buhner book on google books preview - I didn't read enough on the background but he says to definitely eat meat (re: mycoP. Just so that I don't confuse anyone, in the part I read, he was not talking about this lyme/meat allergy thing - for that, there really isn't a choice as it's an anaphylactic allergy).

 

If this can happen btwn lyme and meat, seems it could happen in other infections.

 

The sugar thing is just fascinating. How does one undo that/reset it. How many autoimmune sugar issues are out there that haven't been identified yet?! (to be clear for others, we are talking about very specific carbohydrate molecules, not "sugar" )

Edited November 29, 2014 by jan251

[kim]

Jan,

Since I'm not familiar with Buhner I looked here

http://www.rain-tree.com/myco.htm#.VHsDtMlYBic

Mycoplasmas are parasitic in nature because they rely on the nutrients found in host cells including cholesterol, amino acids, fatty acids and even DNA. They especially thrive in cholesterol rich and arginine-rich environments. Mycoplasmas can generally be found in the mucous membrane in the respiratory tract. They need cholesterol for membrane function and growth, and there is an abundance of cholesterol in the bronchial tubes of the respiratory tract. Once attached to a host cell, they then begin competing for nutrients inside the host cells. As nutrients are depleted, then these host cells can begin to malfunction, or even change normal functioning of the cell, causing a chain reaction with other cells (especially within the immune and endocrine systems)

 

a forum discussing his protocol has this excerpt

http://www.roadback.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9499&start=10

p.119 "a number of websites that discuss the treatment of mycoplasmas insist that such things as arginine and fatty acids should not be taken in the diet as these "feed the bacteria". Again, this will only result in a worsening of the illness--the mycoplasmas need these substances and they are going to get them from your body one way or another; they are very good at doing so. If you don't replace what they take, as the host cells are depleted of these nutrients, a plethora of symptoms will occur, most of them extremely annoying."
"Those on cholesterol lowering drugs should be cautious if they also have mycoplasma infection because of the heavy dependence of the bacteria on cholesterol. (..) Cholesterol is an essential nutrient, crucial for cellular health, and also necessary as a substrate for steroid production in the body."
"Meat proteins are essential."

 

So it does look like he's talking about replacing stuff that the myco P is using up.

The sugar thing is just fascinating.

 

I agree! I sure hope there are favorable results with the GlcNAc trial, but there is the vitamin D aspect and more there. I have to wonder where proper sulfation fits in too?

 

BTW..did DS's IgG food testing include any breakdown of IgG antibodies (subclasses) ? .

It's been a long time since I looked at any of this. I'm reading the pros and cons of IgG food testing and some of this is quite interesting.

 

pro

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/food_allergy_igg.asp#totalvs4

 

In specific immunotherapy with allergen in allergic rhinitis, for example, increases in allergen-specific IgG4 levels indeed correlate with improved clinical responses. IgG4 antibodies not only block IgE mediated food allergies but also block the reactions of food antigens with other IgG subclasses, reducing inflammatory reactions caused by the other IgG subclasses of antibodies to food antigens.

 

con

http://www.foodallergy.org/diagnosis-testing/unproven-testing?

Edited December 1, 2014 by kim