Opinions on Lithium Orotate? Dose?

[monarchcat]

Over the past year we've been dealing with major depression with ds13. Last winter was awful - depression, eating disorder, anger, etc. He's on biaxin for PANDAS and I started him on zinc, CoQ10, Iron (his levels were low) and hydroxy B12. We've done 23andMe and he has a bunch of mutations. He can't tolerate ANY methyl donors (yet symptomatically he's an undermethylator). I feel like there are big pieces of the puzzle to figure out with the MTHFR and genetic stuff and I'm working through that.

 

He seemed to come out of the depression last Spring. He had gained weight and was eating really well (although still a strict organic/vegetarian). However, now we are sinking again. I am thinking about trying lithium orotate and am wondering who has tried it and what the results have been. I especially want to find out what brand and what dose you have used. The dosing seems confusing as some capsules are 5 or 10mg and some are 120mg. I assume the 5 or 10mg ones are just listing elemental lithium, but not sure.

 

I *suspect* he may be low in lithium because I've read that lithium is necessary for getting B12 into the cells and he traditionally has high serum B12 levels, which is strange since he's a vegetarian (practically vegan) who only takes a 1000mcg hydroxy B12 sublingual a couple times a week.

[qannie47]

Pure encapsulation is the one I use. My son weighs 67lbs, and I give him 1/2 dropper full once a day. It has worked extremely well. He is not my Pandas child. He is my son whom has the food intolerance. The liquid orotate seems to have increased his focus and stabilized his mood. No adverse side effects whatsoever.

[Mayzoo]

I started kiddo on one cap in the morning and it made a fairly big difference in her anxiety. I had her lithium level tested after a few months and it was still very low so I bumped her to on in the am and one at noon.

 

I started on it too, and it helps me as well.

[monarchcat]

Thanks for the input. I emailed his pediatrician and asked him if we can do a blood test to get a baseline level before starting and he said yes, so I think we'll do that first. I suspect it might be a good supplement for him.

[Dedee]

We use lithium orotate 5mg. We did urine, hair and blood testing. My kids are "lithium dumpers" due to some of their mutations. They excrete much of their needed lithium in their urine leaving them low in lithium. When we started supplementing lithium, it helped a great deal with anger and mood issues. You should start with no more than 5mg per day. We started with half of a 5mg capsule and worked up to a full capsule to prevent any issues. My daughter now takes 5mg twice daily and my son only once daily. I even take it once daily and can tell it helps my moods.

 

I would highly recommend it. It has been one of the best supplements in terms of improvement we have tried over these last 3 years with my daughter.

 

Dedee

[monarchcat]

Thanks, for the info Dedee. I'm looking forward to trying it. I'm waayy past the point of thinking that anything will be a magic cure-all, but I'll settle for building a healthier, happier child day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year....

[WorriedDADNMOM]

I recommend it as a natural alternative. I was told by DAN/Integrative pedi that it is more for stabilization of mood as opposed to combating depression. St. Johns Wort has help lighten the mood and can improve happiness.

 

You also mention...."over the winter" and "rebounded in the spring". I might suggest looking at vitamin d levels too.

 

I won't get into my whole story, but we did EVERYTHING our DAN/Integrative pedi told us to do.

 

It really is about optimizing and balancing everything in our kiddos. I could not have done it on my own......

 

We are in a really good place right now.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[monarchcat]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, vitamin D levels are low at the moment. Just got test results today actually and his level is 22. Strangely, though, they were up nicely when his depression/anorexia really kicked in last fall (his level was 74 at the time, which really surprised me, but it was after all the summer sun). He is homozygous for VDR-taq, which means we'll probably always struggle with D levels. I haven't been supplementing, but am going to start again.

 

The other thing we CANNOT get rid of is mycoplasma. Tests came back for positive IgG and IgM. This has been a couple years now that we can't seem to get the numbers down with either azith or clarithromycin (and a brief 3 month stint on monocylcline).

 

I tend to be very conservative with supplements, etc., but I'm going to have to up my game. Right now he's taking clarithromyciin for PANDAS, Zinc, CoQ10, Iron (he runs low as he's pretty much a vegan), 2000mcg Hydroxy B12, and saccaromyces Boullardii. And we'll be adding in 2000i.u. of D3 a day.

[Dedee]

We also struggle with the Mycoplasma issue. It wasn't untill we saw an LLMD and started using two antibiotics together that Mycoplasma titers started to go down. Myco is a very bad bug. It can hide in different body organs and because it doesn't have a cell wall acts much like a virus and is very difficult to destroy. It took 3 full years of using 2 and 3 antibiotics together before my daughters titers came into the normal range. You must be very aggressive or you will never be rid of it.

 

When we treated my son for Mycoplasma, we treated him for 18 months and thought he was better because his titers came into normal range. We then decreased his antibiotics and focused on methylation issues. After about 6 months he started having major depression and anxiety again. We checked titers again and they had gone way up. Myco is bad about that. It can go dormant and look like it is cured only to re-surface. This is why it is so important to be aggressive and make sure you eliminate this bug the first time around.

 

Most people do not take Mycoplasma seriously enough. It can cause havoc on the body and the immune system. Also, it can be a co-infection of Lyme. If you are not able to eliminate Myco, you should definitely see a LLMD to check out the possibility of Lyme. They often are seen together.

 

Best of luck

 

Dedee

Edited October 10, 2014 by dedee

[smartyjones]

deedee and monarch cat -- you have a update about how things are going? can you give opinions on lithium orotate at this time?

 

ds has had exacerbation with lyme, strep and myco over this fall/winter. he is doing fairly well, but I am looking for help with intense reactions it is occasional and to an appropriate trigger -- what I mean is, he is not wrong - he should be upset about whatever it is, it's just a quick and intense upset. that's what I am hoping to mellow with lithium orotate.

 

thanks.

[monarchcat]

DS has been on it since late fall and I do think it's helping. I know for sure he has methylation issues and based on his SNPs I suspected he would be low in lithium. I just had his blood levels tested and his level came back undetectable, despite having been on the lithium orotate daily since November. I've now upped him to one in the morning and one at night. We've been using this: It's important to understand the dose. One 120mg tablet gives about 4 1/2 mg of lithium, so it is a teeny-tiny dose compared to the scary prescription lithium.

 

I think it's worth a try. Start low and slow. Half a pill per day for a week or so, then a whole pill. If your dr will check blood lithium levels at least you'll have a baseline to know if he's deficient from the get-go. Yasko's talk on lithium is interesting: http://www.dramyyasko.com/resources/webisodes/lithium-connection-webisode/