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I am looking to make some changes during summer --- ds12 seems to have better focus from zinc -- have never tested levels for him - yet he is negative for pyrrole disorder. he has been taking soloray biozinc 15 mg combo of zinc picolinate and zinc citrate + b6. this may be hard to evaluate b/c obviously he needs less focus in summer -- but I like to make changes then -- perhaps I should rethink that -- ??? idk -- he's in middle school and I don't so much know anything anymore - :unsure:

 

I have become more a fan of thorne products and am thinking of switching. they offer a couple trace mineral blends. mainly one is citrates and the other is picolinates. neither has b6 in the formula.

 

any opinions on the absorptions and effectiveness of either? opinions on importance of b6?

 

thanks!!

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I lean toward picolinate form - tho you can find articles supporting both forms. I love Biopure's Core - DS does far better on it than on any other source (but he is strongly + for pyroluria, so that probably plays a role in his response, as he needs all the additional minerals in Core). The B6 is important for everyone - major player in the transsulfuration pathway and in detox/glutathione production. But enough is as good as a feast so try to stay with supps that don't go overboard on dosages hundreds of times greater than RDA.

 

Every few months, we do a "zinc challenge" - take 10ml of liquid zinc (from amazon). If it has a strong metallic taste, you're good in the zinc dept. If it has no taste, you likely have a pretty decent deficiency. i use that to judge whether each of us is at the right dose and then at least once a year we do a spectracell test to check levels of various nutrients.

 

Without school to use as a barometer, you can ask him about his dreams. Those w/low zinc don't recall dreams as well as those who are plentiful in ziinc. For DS, we noticed he also got subtle humor quicker when he had the right amt of zinc.

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No opinion on specific zinc brands. We currently use Opti-Zinc by Douglas Laboratories as its recommended by our bio-medical Autism specialist.

 

However, if you want to know zinc/copper ratios and how the body utilizes it inter-cellularly I highly recommend testing through SpectraCell. The test runs under $300 but don't remember exact amount prior to filing with our insurance. We run it every six months now on each of our children. We have treated as high as 150 m.g. of zinc plus 8 to 1 ratio of copper. Our kids were 'still' deficient in zinc at 30 m.g. per day, the twins were not KPU 'pyrrole' either. The higher amounts of zinc 150 m.g. per day resulted in immediate improvements in DD.

 

SpectraCell tests a broad set of vitamin and minerals including Amnio Acids like glutatmine, Antioxidants like glutatione, all B vitamins, etc. For us, this particular test has been invaluable for our children's recovery.

Edited by sf_mom

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Every few months, we do a "zinc challenge" - take 10ml of liquid zinc (from amazon). If it has a strong metallic taste, you're good in the zinc dept. If it has no taste, you likely have a pretty decent deficiency. i use that to judge whether each of us is at the right dose and then at least once a year we do a spectracell test to check levels of various nutrients.

 

 

I always learn something new from you, LLM! I have always been left with a metallic taste in my mouth after sucking on one of those zinc+C lozenges during cold season, and I always just assumed everyone tasted that because of the zinc in the lozenge! But now I can use that as a test with my DS.

 

Thanks!

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We do test via our LLMD. However, I think they have blood draw sites that might not require a Dr. visit but also might be a little more expensive. Just found charge: via our LLMD test is $190.00

 

http://www.spectracell.com/patients/find-a-drawsite/

 

 

 

Here is a fairly good explanation of their testing:

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a fairly good over view of their results:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28HQ7T6oEU8

Edited by sf_mom

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Just a note about Spectracell. If your doctor is in NY state you can't do it. You'll have to find a doctor outside NY who will. Not sure about restrictions in other states. I've been wanting to do this test but we see a NY MD. Will ask DD's new PCP to sign off on this test.

 

Re Zinc we use and like Thorne zinc picolinate.

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On the spectracell - our LLMD participates in some sort of plan with them - we pay $88 upfront and they submit to insurance. Our particular insurance always denies their claims but they never come back to us for additional pmt.

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A new to me test from Metamatrix, called ION, requires morning urine and blood draw before eating, and gives results for:

 

Functional Deficiency Markers for Vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B12 and Folic Acid

Vitamins A, E, B-Carotene and Coenzyme Q10 - (serum)

Essential Elements - (RBC/Whole Bld.) minerals, including Zinc

Amino Acids - (fasting plasma)

Fatty Acids - (plasma)

Organic Acids - (overnight urine)- Yeast and bacteria!

Lipid Peroxides (TBARS) - (serum)

Homocysteine - (plasma)

 

Our Dr. ran it through my insurance costing $169., normally around $800.

Awaiting results for dd on it-

 

http://www.metametrix.com/files/test-menu/interpretive-guides/ION-IG.pdf

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thanks for info on tests. what are all your docs using for diagnosis codes for insurance? sfmom -- the TOTAL cost was $190 or that was after insurance?

I had horrible time with insurance that denied MTHFR and don't want to repeat that fiasco.

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$190.00 was before we filed with insurance but similar to LLM, 'I think' our Dr. may have worked out the prepayment price.... just not at $88.00.

 

The test has been super helpful and worth every penny. Our twins were initially High Copper, Low Zinc and had symptoms that resonated with the ratio. After supplementation, they were Low Copper, Borderline Low Zinc...... That is when we upped the Zinc level to a Klinghardt protocol and it helped tremendously. We are in the process of now retesting to see where their zinc levels are and if we can lower dosage.

 

Older DS was initially only deficient in Alpha Lipoic Acid. A year later he was deficient in C, Bs, D, Calcium, Zinc, Magnesium.... all stuff we were supplementing (probably not absorbing anything) so we switch IV nutrients. We also just retested him to see how he is responding to the IV nutrients.

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LLM and sfmom -- did you request spectracell and your doc complied or is it something your doc often does? it appears the test is $369 or $491 with interpretation if you just want it done on your own.

 

the website says they will call your doc if it is something you want to do and they will explain - but I don't know if that would be at a good rate or the other.

Edited by smartyjones

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My LLMD suggested it to us. I'd never heard of it before last year. He already had a relationship with the lab and uses it pretty regularly. So everything was in place prior to his suggesting the test to us.

 

I don't know about the additional cost for an explanation. The report comes in two parts - one that's all text and one that's all graphs. So whether you're a visual person or need things in words, the total report is pretty easy to interpret. Yes, my doc helped interpret the first time we ran it but I'd have figured it out myself without paying an additional $130. You might want to call the co. and ask about pricing options. The first time I got an EOB telling me I was on the hook for $$$ I freaked. I called Spectracell and they rep reassured me I'd paid all I needed to pay and walked me thru the payment plan. From this thread, they seem to have multiple pricing plans. It's a good test, but probably not the only one around. After your MTHFR fiasco, I'd make sure you had some reassurances beforehand.

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