qannie47 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Now that my Pandas child seems stabilized...I now have time to address his twin... He is my borderline adhd/odd child...Yes....wonderful.... I had great results with 5htp. Great results. However, I noticed that after awhile, it seemed to cause too much Serotonin over time, 12 weeks...and abrupt irritability emerged. I have played around with dosages, and with same build up results..So I stopped it about a month ago. I started him on Probiotics about 1 month ago. His digestive issues/stomach pains/constipation have all disappeared, which is wonderful. But the last 2 weeks I am seeing BIG ODD emerge again, along with irritable mood...Phone calls from school.... I am wondering if this is part of a die off process/effect? Q #2 I have him on a wait list for Dr, Greenblatt. Any opinions on him? Thanks Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searching_for_help Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 James Greenblatt? I would love to see him. He gets the whole gut-brain connection. He has lots of interesting webinars on The Great Plain Laboratory website. Or is this a different Dr. Greenblatt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyD Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Are you referring to an integrative psychiatrist in MA? I have heard really good things about him. My DD's dietician/nutritionist, who used to work for him, highly recommends him. I have a great deal of respect for her -- she understands PANDAS and TBIs so I suspect he does too. Now that my Pandas child seems stabilized...I now have time to address his twin... He is my borderline adhd/odd child...Yes....wonderful.... I had great results with 5htp. Great results. However, I noticed that after awhile, it seemed to cause too much Serotonin over time, 12 weeks...and abrupt irritability emerged. I have played around with dosages, and with same build up results..So I stopped it about a month ago. I started him on Probiotics about 1 month ago. His digestive issues/stomach pains/constipation have all disappeared, which is wonderful. But the last 2 weeks I am seeing BIG ODD emerge again, along with irritable mood...Phone calls from school.... I am wondering if this is part of a die off process/effect? Q #2 I have him on a wait list for Dr, Greenblatt. Any opinions on him? Thanks Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qannie47 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yes, Dr. James Greenblatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffleshell Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Wow, this is interesting. I have my son on 5htp and he's probably been on it about 12 weeks now that you mention it. And I'm seeing increased irritability and "spazziness" recently. I had been maybe thinking he was about to flare, but it has been steady for about two weeks. So maybe not a flare, just not quite as good as it was. Thanks for flagging this. I will research this further and talk to my doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qannie47 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I played around with doses when I first encountered this problem. took him off for one week and then restarted every other day instead of once a day...Problem still occurred several weeks later again. It must build up too much serotonin...I guess when you are manipulating neurotransmitter levels, this can happen. I also wonder if the increase of serotonin produced increases receptor sites...which means they would require more to maintain balance....like an addiction of sorts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searching_for_help Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ohh, this neurotransmitter stuff is difficult. There's so much more to it than I ever dreamed. Our dd has "extra"cellular serotonin - LOTS of it. Yet she has all the symptoms of LOW serotonin. And a MAO++ snp - so maybe she's not breaking it down. It's absolutely insane trying to figure this out. There are receptors, but not just ONE, there are LOTS of different types. She's very high in dopamine, but low in norepinephrine, yet dopamine is the step BEFORE norepinephrine, so increasing the norepinephrine is tricky. (But clostridia can cause that, also lack of vitamin C and copper...) WAY to hard to figure out. I'm not sure the "experts" have a good grasp on this. I even started dd on Inositol - read it can help the receptors in some way (can't remember exactly now), but after several days, she became very agitated. This is so very complicated. One thing to keep in mind though, is the gut brain connection. Our body is run by what happens in our gut. Amino acids - they are SO important concerning neurotransmitters. (I know our dd is low on many amino acids...) If out digestive system is not doing its job, we're going to have deficiencies that affect our brain. If your kids are on PPI's or other things that can lower stomach acids, or abx and not using probiotics - you can BET they are going to end up with vitamin/nutritional deficiencies, which are directly related to our neurotransmitters. But how to keep that all balanced? Then there are all the "co-factors" when dealing with neurotransmitters - B6(P5P), copper, vit. C, etc, etc. I know if you're low in B12 it can affect serotonin. Etc., etc. Point is - the gut working, and getting correct nutrition, is very important. Are there any others out there who have VDR Fok? Our dd pancreatic enzymes aren't doing there job, and I wonder how much that is contributing to our problems. We do use digestive enzymes, but not seeing any great improvement. I would LOVE to see Dr. Greenblatt, and have him try and figure this all out. But we're just not up for that kind of drive. Hope it works out for you, and you're able to see some success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qannie47 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 My other question was about Yeast die off.. Q 1) When does that happen? His behavior took a turn about 2 weeks into probiotics. Q 2) How long can I expect behaviors before I seen improvement.... I read that Dr. Greenblatt says that it can take 6 months for gut/serotonin to level out and see improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamTyrion Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Hi everyone - just wanted to let you know with regard to 5HTP I have read in more than one place to ONLY take it for about 12 weeks. Here is an article from Dr. Oz http://blog.doctoroz.com/is-this-right-for-you/5-htp-is-this-right-for-you. In the comments section it mentions to start at 50mg, then go up slowly 50mg at a time until mood benefits are clear. Improvement occurs after a few months after which 5HTP is not longer needed as long as adequate protein is consumed everyday. And our personal experience with yeast die off is that it started happening immediately (within 24 hours) - evidence through my son's behaviour. A few days later he developed a rash all over his back which was his body detoxing - that lasted for weeks before it cleared. His behaviour improved after about a week following the first use of the probiotic (we used HMF by Genestra). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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