Flushing Red Cheeks

[ibcdbwc]

DS has intermittent flushing, hot red cheeks that seem to precede an OCD flare.

 

In 2011 he had one band 23 IgM (lyme specific) and one band 41 IgG via Western Blot. In 2013 no bands identified. We will still pursue lyme but... hypothetically help me think of other causes.

 

He is an adolescent. Hormonal?

He is hypothyroid but well controlled. After a very bad battle with parvo he had thyroiditis.

He has chronic sinus infections (on antibiotics) and allergy to dust mites. All other allergy testing was negative.

 

Any ideas? Have you heard of an auto -immune flush? His ANA was negative and though Dr. T found anti-adrenal antibodies (not high but right outside reference range), DS's endocrinologist said "I would worry about that."

[sf_mom]

Yes... check for viruses. MDL has a good overall viral panel. BUT, specifically I'd check for Coxsackies, Fifth's (Parvovirus 19) and HHV1 (can cause a lot of mood liability). I believe the last three are not on MDL panel and can be tested through Labcorp and Quest. If viruses are an issue the MDL titers will help to create a baseline for treatment.

 

As for his sinus issues it could be fungus/yeast and why antibiotics are not helpful. There are some anti-fungal sprays..... we have not used them so I don't have a name. Nebulizing Hydrogen Peroxide would take care of the issue as well. Food Grade Hydrogen 3%. We nebulize all three children every two - three days and we have not gotten any colds this year. We worked up to larger dose and was recommended by our NP who does a lot of Hydrogen therapies. Below is some information on how it works.

 

http://healyourselfathome.com/HOW/THERAPIES/H2O2/nebulizing_H2O2.aspx

 

 

♦ 3% FOOD GRADE hydrogen peroxide MUST BE FURTHER DILUTED for use in a nebulizer:

 

- As a preventative to keep infections at bay / promote healing – add 0.5 ml (cc) (or ~12 drops if using a dropper) to a nebulizer filled with 5 ml (cc) distilled water. Use once a day or as often as you feel the need

 

- To fight a lung, bronchial or sinus infection or to get hydrogen peroxide into the body for a systemic treatment – add an amount (see below) of 3% hydrogen peroxide to a nebulizer filled with 5ml (cc) distilled water. Use several times / day as convenient.

 

√ The lowest effective dose is ~0.5 ml (cc) or ~ 12 drops (if using a dropper) in 5 ml (cc) distilled water for about 3 minutes. (As a guideline: 1 ml usually contains about 25 drops, but obviously varies with different droppers). If this is your first time using this therapy, use this dose (or even less) to test your reaction.

√ Increase dose as tolerated up to a maximum 2.0 ml (cc) in 5 ml (cc) distilled water for up to about 10 minutes (maximum dose determined from anecdotal reports)

 

Nebulized H₂O₂will not only contact the lungs, it will also enter the bloodstream, where it will oxidize pathogens and toxins.

Caution must be exercised by smokers and individuals who have used prescription and nonprescription drugs in their lungs, and those who are very sick. If H₂O₂ solution is too strong, the H₂O₂ reaction with a heavy contaminant or microbial presence could promote tissue-damaging inflammation in the lungs and a potentially dangerous systemic “die-off” effect, called the Herxheimer Reaction

 

Edited February 4, 2014 by sf_mom

[ibcdbwc]

sf_mom, thank you so much! I have suspected fungal issues actually and planned to talk to ENT about this. Have not heard of the anti fungal nasal spray. DS has been sick every month since September!

 

Please tell me more about viruses. DS had titers for Coxsackie A and B. IGM for A were negative. Titers were high for IgG but I thought that just indicated prior infection. IgM for CoxsackieB was for whatever reason not checked.

 

He's had parvo- hence the thyroiditis. IgM was negative this time, IgG was 6.1 (high). I don't know enough about chronic parvo but DS does have intermittent joint pain. Does the IgM show positive if its chronic?

 

HHV-6 IgG was 8.24 (high) but IgM was negative.

 

What type of MD would manage use the titers to guide treatment?

Edited February 4, 2014 by ibcdbwc

[qannie47]

My Pandas ds has a twin brother. He flushed all the time. Especially when he was getting sick. One time the culprit was fifths disease. He also runs hot, both my kids do. Both have sensory issues and it seems that any parent I speak to with sensory kids reports children that are HOT. I have wondered if the anxiety that they can be under because of the internal mismanaged sensory input is the culprit. As we have reorganized his sensory input I noticed his flushing issues have diminished. I know that when I am stressed....I am hot.....just a thought.

[ibcdbwc]

Thanks Quannie. Yes, DS by nature is hot! And by nature he is prone to a normal level of anxiety and his cheeks will definitely flush.

 

This however is different. He can just be sitting around and get bright fiery red hot cheeks. These hot cheeks precede (by as much as 48 hours) the behavioral OCD flare which for him now is a ridiculous level of anxiety, rumination, confessional and reassurance seeking, worry about world peace and the joblessness rate... He's 12!

 

When he was younger he was more classic PANDAS. Just right OCD was our main trouble with motoric hyperactivity. Flares about twice a year with strep or virus. I never noticed the cheeks though he certainly did get red ears from time to time.

[cara615]

My son was on a methyl B complex with B3/B4 and when his body did not need it as much he would get a niacin flush. I knew it was the B3/B4 because he got the flush right after taking the vit. It would last for about 30 minutes and then go away. His cheeks and ears were hot too.

 

Probably not your issue but just wanted to mention it.

 

 

It was a good way for me to realize that he didn't need as much of the methyl B's because his body was starting to methylate better. At least this is what me and my doctor were thinking. I should probably get another NutraEval test done to see what his levels are....

Edited February 4, 2014 by cara615

[sf_mom]

A good LLMD, biomedical/Integrative Autism specialist would treat for elevated viral titers and look for improvement. Like Chicken Pox/Herpes the virus may always be present in the body and only activates when the body is under stress. With my kids, I look at the comparative level of IgG or IgM and symptom response. Hopefully, whatever titers you are dealing with will lower with treatment. It has been true for us, Coxsackie titers went down very slowly over time however EBV is still high in our family.

 

Sometimes the temperature intolerances, red ears, etc. are related to Babesia or FL 1953 Protozoa. Little blurb on BLO (Babesia or Babesia like organism which includes FL 1953). See if you can't pick up on a cycle of the flushing. Him being sick every month leads me to think he has Lyme. Lyme cycles every 28 to 34 days. Have you check him yet?

 

For the patient (with any of the above) that also has temperature intolerance, layering clothing at night due to chill then throws off the bed covers due to overheating, BabLo cannot be ignored.

 

http://www.wayneanderson.com/pages/diseases/babesia.html

 

From the same website information on Fungus/Yeast.

 

Chronic sinusitis, stuffy nose, otitis media and external, sore throat, cough, asthma, SOB, esophogitis, nausea, belching, abdominal bloating, gas, IBS, anal itching, vaginosis, vaginitis, cystitis, frequent and urgent urination, skin lesions, irritations and itching, opacity of the nails.

 

http://www.wayneanderson.com/pages/diseases/afng.html

[airial95]

My daughter always gets the red, flushed cheeks when she has strep. Sometimes it's her only physical symptom but typcially means a + throat culture.

[qannie47]

I get that, my ds would flush as well when he was doing nothing. That being said, he is not my Pandas child. I am glad though that you have found something that seems to serve as a for warning. For my ds, he will complain of a headache right across the front of his for head. Within 24 hours, his Pandas symptoms always start.

 

You might want to think about using his flushing as a warning that a flare is possibly to start? Perhaps try Motrin and see if you can head off inflammation or prevent it from getting worse?

[ibcdbwc]

Thanks to all!

 

Quannie DS also gets headache and eye pain. But he also has chronic sinus infections and swollen nasal turbinates. We think this is all part of the puzzle but its hard to know what to do next.

 

Thanks sf_mom. I appreciate the information. He was tested for confections which were all negative. There does seem to be a cycle though. We've never before seen this in all his years of dealing with PANDAS -- it was more classic then. Now there does seem to be a 4 week cycle. But he is also getting a sinus infection every month as well. Perhaps it's all related. We are on a long waiting list to see an LLMD. There are not many providers in our area.

 

This question is a weird one. I feel like I am crazy noticing these things but there also seems to be a REALLY STRONG BODY ODOR a few days prior to onset of PANDAS type symptoms (brain fog, intrusive racing thoughts, OCD) (he also gets headache and eye pain but as said he is getting these sinus infections once a month as well).

[sf_mom]

From the same symptom Babesia symptom list posted above.

 

"* Can cause headache, occipital and/or frontal (especially behind the eyes), or the sensation of pressure without pain."

 

There are 11 strains of protozoa/BLO and we are only able to test for 2 with Igenex. Fry Labs now has a protozoa panel that will test for 7 different strains.

 

If the odor is ammonia 'like' it might also be yeast. Is his tongue white? Does he have any white patches of skin on his face? Does he have any eczema? All of these could be indications of yeast. A comprehensive stool might help you determine if there is yeast. Would your current Dr. provide a trial of Nystatin/Diflucan. Or perhaps Alinia which will cross treat several infections inclusive of protozoa.

[ibcdbwc]

Thanks sfmom, you are so helpful! The odor is a very strong pungent (have to cover my own nose) smell. It has a semi-sweet quality but not in a good way. Hard to describe. He doesn't have it all the time - again I only notice it once a month prior to the onset of these other strange symptoms. I didn't think much of it until I looked in our journal. When I've smelled it, i have thought "yeast?"

 

We've known yeast to be a problem in general for him. He's been prone to anal itching (and has had confirmed anal strep twice and fungal issues twice). He has itchy scalp pretty much always and a chronic itchy red spot under one arm. This is all why I was thinking fungal for his nose too and why I planned to ask his ENT about that possibility for his nose issues. His ENT continues to put him off and on different antibiotics (also why yeast is a problem despite probiotic). He does seem to respond well for a while, but it's certainly not eradicating anything.

 

Because of all above, and the flushed red cheeks and the sense that something was about to tip for him, we did give him a dose of Diflucan. He got a severe stomach ache. The next day he was fully tipped into the intrusive thoughts, anxiety and OCD flare. The flare that I felt was going to happen anyway. Coincidentally or not, it's just one month after the last time we had the OCD flare... And his nose still looks awful. And then the headache...eye pain... So lyme perhaps, yeast yes somewhere in there, autoimmune system taxed definitely... Just really hard to tweeze it all apart and tell what is what.

 

Our current providers are not willing to pursue BLO/further lyme testing. I guess I have to wait until LLMD appt.

[qannie47]

I think that we parents have been conditioned to notice every little thing in the quest to heal our children. I think those little benign things often lead to a big aha, discovery. So thank goodness our radar has become so fine tuned.

 

Interesting about the body odor.

[tpotter]

DS had for years...still has very occasionally. I would suspect lyme.