refusing antibiotics

[FLmom]

My 13 yo ds, who started augmentin 2 weeks ago is now refusing to take it. He says he doesn't want to be on med. He has been off and on about it for the past week, but today just adamantly refused. Today has been a very bad day-depression, suicidal, not doing school work, refusing to go to school anymore, cursing me and his sisters. I don't know how to discipline him anymore. I don't know how to encourage him either-he makes me so angry with the way he treats us and is repulsed by usbthat I just don't want to be around him.

 

I feel I have nothing left to bribe him with to take the augmentin. Reason doesn't work. I'm at my wits end and have no idea what to do with him anymore.

 

I don't even know if it is Pandas/Pans or just wishful thinking that it is something that can be cured. But whats the point anyway if he isn't cooperative with the treatment. Sorry if this is confusing...my emotions are running wild and my thoughts are spewing.

[qannie47]

Crush it up and make him a fruit smoothy with lots of honey. I get what you mean about the way he is treating you. It is the dopamine receptors...I am convinced of it. Anger, unreasonable thoughts, rage.....dopamine...not your kid...I think this is the hardest part for us parents who's children express their symptoms in this way. Pretty hard to show compassion to them when it is rejected, coupled with bratty, fresh mouth behavior that makes you want to throw them thru the window. I also get the doubting. I think that is normal too when traditional parenting suggests consequences. Just remember that if traditional parenting worked for your child that you would be doing that and he/she would be fine. But they are not fine are they? Remember that. I, when things get really tough, actually look at my child and deal with him as if he were not my own...it removes the "taking it personally" part of it out of the equation. It helps. It helps for me to see them as a child who is sick, instead of a child who is abusing their parent, which is what is looks/feels like. Then I don't throw him through the window.

[FLmom]

I wish he would do a smoothie. He has bigtime food issues. He's had half a waffle this morning, and potato chips the rest of the day. I was making him a frozen pizza for lunch, but I contaminated it. So I had to put another one in. That one got burnt up in the oven after him cursing me-I figured he could take care of it himself. But that would mean he'd have to touch something to get it out, so that wasn't happening. SO then he just decided that since he couldn't find a gun, he'd starve himself and be dead in three days. A little while later he came out and said that he'd starve himself on another day that he wasn't so hungry, and proceeded to eat chips.

[qannie47]

Oh dear....I hope you have wine in the house. I am fortunate that my child does not have food issues...what do your resources recommend? Is there anything that he will eat religiously besides chips?

[FLmom]

Oh geesh, don't really have resources. Just those that say he needs to eat healthy, take supplements etc...but he won't do that. I don't drink, but if I had some in the house, I'm sure he'd drive me to it. Generally he eats something like a frozen pizza or hot pocket for lunch. About all he will eat anymore for dinner is sometimes a hamburger, but lately he's said they are disgusting and make him want to throw up. We do eat out several times a week, just due to our schedule, but at home he eats very little. I guess other people's germs don't bother him as much as ours.

[qannie47]

Do the antibiotics come in other forms...other then pills? Like a liquid form? Can you call your doctor and explain your predicament? Maybe others will chime in and offer some ideas to get the abx in him.;;;

[FLmom]

I could check about the liquid. Not sure if that would solve the problem since his issue seems to be with having to be on meds, and the fact that the medicine is contaminated by whoever made it.(he is even this way with supplements), but it's worth looking in to.

[Mommy2MCL]

What about showing him the alternatives? That if he doesn't take the meds orally then it could possibly be through a shot or IV? Or talk to him about kids who have to go into the hospital because of refusal to take meds. IS he losing weight? Are you being seen by a PANDAS specialist? Will he take Motrin? maybe that can calm him enough to take the abx.

 

Good luck to you momma!

[T_Anna]

Wow, flmom. He sounds very similar to my DS15 (well, except for leaving the house), with the food and pill along issues. We got to a point last year where I paid him to take the pills.

 

Thankfully, I don't have to do that anymore, it adds up.

 

T.Anna

[Hrosenkrantz]

Is there any disgusting forbidden food he will take as a bribe. Getting my son to take his medicine has always been a trying challenge (not the risperdone though, he seems to take that without a fight).He has really slacked on abx in the past weeks.

In our early steroids week, id load him in the car, drive to mcdonalds drive-through and get steaming hot pancakes, wave them in front of his face with one hand while i held the medicine in the other hand and made him take it. And he is supposed to be gluten free but i figured this took precedent.When he was fighting bloodwork the other day, i pulled a piece of minibagel from my purse and gave it to him so he'd compy

[FLmom]

I have told him he'd need to go in the hospital if he doesn't take them, but I don't think he's buying it. At this point he is so miserable that he doesn't care about the consequences. I did get him to take 2 motrin last night and grapefruit seed extract. I'm wondering if I should just push the Motrin this week and forget about the abt and see if he has an improvement with the motrin. Dr. K wanted him to do two weeks of augmentin(which would have ended yesterday), then a steroid burst. But when we saw Dr. Murphy last week she wanted him on the augmentin at least a month to see if it helps.

 

I'm not above paying him to take them, but I know his price will be high. I had to pay him to get blood work, and he got me up to $15 per vile. I had no idea they'd be taking 8!! He settled with me buying him a $10 video game that was rated M that I didn't want him to have, plus $40. Plus there is really nothing he wants to save his money for, other than violent video games, which I hate him playing, so he really isn't that driven by money since he has about everything he could possibly want. He only real drive is the video games, but it kills me to let him play those as a reward-with their violence and language- when he is so awful to us.

[LNN]

Here's my tough love answer...not that I don't sympathize with the battles you have on your hands. I do. But look at it this way: Contamination OCD has kidnapped your son and is holding him ransom. It sends you a ransom note and says "pay me with a violent video game that goes against your principals, reward me for making your son say vile things to you, and I'll let him take a pill that's a threat to me, but I'm not too worried, because I'll just send you this ransom note again in 12 hrs and if I can get your son to skip enough doses, I'll be safe and even more in control than I am now" - would you pay a ransom like that?

 

You need to help your son see the contamination OCD for what it is - a mind-controlling kidnapper who will distort reality in order to grow stronger every single time you accommodate it. it is the OCD that's the danger to your son, not the medications that will kill the OCD. I get that the fear is strong. That the OCD is telling him the meds are evil and are contaminated and may kill him. I get that your son isn't rational about it and as a teen, his brain wiring is already not as rational as it once was. But instead of being on opposing teams, you both need to align yourself and be on the same team. Bribery doesn't put you on the same team. it makes you seem like the enemy.

 

I think you'd get a lot out of reading John March's "Talking Back to OCD". It will help you re-frame the problem and help you understand both your role and your son's responsibilities in this battle. Stop begging and bribing him for compliance. Insist on it, not with threats of punishments that mean nothing to him but with natural consequences. "You don't want to take meds that will kill OCD? Fine. If you want to forfeit the rest of your life, if you want to live under the tyrant of OCD, if you want to give up your dreams, your friends, your happiness and you don't think you're worth fighting for, then don't take that pill. But guess what, as soon as you let OCD win, you know what it will say to you? It will tell you you can't play video games any longer. It will be so strong that it will tell you the controller is contaminated. It will tell you that the images on the screen are real and when you close your eyes at night, OCD will tell you the scenes are real. OCD will hold you prisoner. I can't force you to be well. I can't force you to fight for your freedom, for your dreams, for your life. You have to do that. But if you want to try fighting it, I will help you. I will be your coach. But I'm done fighting this alone. Get on the team or don't. Chose which life you want."

 

The book does a much better and kinder job of framing things, but the jist is that you as a parent can't control or fight the OCD thoughts and your efforts are better spent on trying to get your son to see the problem as something he owns and something you will help him solve.

 

I don't want to imply this is easy. It's incredibly hard. But accommodating OCD, paying ransoms, will only make it stronger and more entrenched. I would not rely on motrin to solve this for you. If you can only get one med into him, make it the augmentin. Murphy is right IMO- he needs at least a month if not longer. But I think using the ideas in the book can help you a lot.

[pr40]

more tough love:

it's to be or no to be. someone here on the forum suggested taking your kid to the psychatric clinic, the worse the better, just to see where he may end up. the point is to bring him to reason somehow.

Also, i am not sure you are doing him any favors by having junk food around. throw all the food you don't want him to eat out and pray for the best. how long can he hold off? from your message it seems not too long.

You got to impose your will on him if there is to be any hope of improvement

[Teri]

My dd7 always gives us a hard time taking meds when she is feeling bad & needs it most! Currently she takes 8-10 pills a day plus probiotics, Motrin, & vitamins when she is feeling pretty good. She would become convinced that she "can't swallow them ... They will get stuck." When she was on liquid it was that it taste bad and I can't do it.

 

When it's bad .... We have to set a timer for a certain amount of time or no media (tv, computer, iPad or electronics).

 

My advice is to get Motrin into him ahead of the abx. Don't reward him for taking meds ... Require him to take meds to access whatever his currency is .... Which sounds like video games. It's critical to his healing that he takes his meds.! We tell our daughter that she needs to talk back to her PANDAS. Its playing a brain trick on her by telling her she can't do it.

 

I know it's easier said then done. Hang in there and good luck!

[3bmom]

My heart breaks for you because that is the same path that landed my DS (11 at the time) in the hospital. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place and LLM is right.. Tough love. My son was on prophylactic antibiotics and was secretly not taking them. Later he said they were "changing him". He wouldn't eat any "growing food" because he didn't want to be tall and only ate junk. My DH and I were contaminated. He lost 35 lbs which led to the hospital which gave us parenting lessons.

 

Our Dr told us in this inflammatory state he could get type one diabetes and we had to remove dairy immediately. This was for a child who snuck out of the house after 9:00 to get a milkshake. Clue number1. Morphine effect. We told him we love him, have to be good parents and no dairy. We did keep sweet cereal for transitioning. Dairy alone took the edge off especially the abusive language. I always kept my keys on me and walked out when he got ugly. I left a lot!

 

The food he is eating is adding to inflammation. It is like putting out a fire with gasoline and water. We did it slow but each item removed is one more irritant off the brain.

 

When we got the results of blood work we showed him in black and white he had infections. He was extremely angry but it helped. We said you have a broken brain and you would think we we were terrible parents if we didn't fix a broken arm. We also took away games and computer and he had to earn time. He only took two pills antibiotic and antiviral. 3x a day. Did you check HHV 6 ?

 

3 days later he improved and kept on improving. 2 months later we added SSRI for more blood to the frontal lobes as indicated from neuro spect scans and have been stable for 2 years.

 

It was the hardest time of my life and some days I wondered if I would make it. You can do it! One hour at a time becomes one day and than a week. We are all here for you. Hang in there!