natural glutamates

[julia24]

I'm looking for input from anyone who is sensitive to MSG (i.e...all of us or our kids here LOL!). Do you (or your children) react to natural glutamates, too? Or just the chemical ones, under all their different names?

 

Is a natural glutamate reaction the same thing as reacting to salicylates?

 

-Julie

[orthomolecular]

These are are related and require the same mechanism to be removed from the body. Problems with both MSG and salicylates indicate faulty sulfation or a problem with converting sulfites into sulfates so they can be excreted by the body.

 

Sometimes people will say they are allergic to sulfa drugs. Or they may also say they are allergic to certain types of supplements that contain sulfur. This is an indication of faulty sulfation.

 

This is usually a problem with high histamine types who are advised to take methionine a sulfur-containing amino acid (SAA). The best way to get sulfur is really from SAAs. SAAs provide the greatest amount compared to say, garlic, which has less but is very fragrant. It is possible to find some sources of sulfur that will make the problem worse because of that simple issue of converting a sulfite into sulfate. It boils down to the right form of sulfur really.

 

The website (powerpoint presentation) below does mention sulfation and how digestive enzymes may help too. I believe that Houston has a no-phenol enzyme product that you might look into. That website I believe may explain a low or no-phenol diet, which may or may not be another option to consider.

 

www.autismone.org/uploads/Gavin%20Cathy.ppt

 

Karen Defelice has written about the use of epsom salts because they contain sulfate the form of sulfur that does NOT have to be converted to be excreted from the body. Her website is below. Her book Enzymes for Autism does briefly explain about sulfation, as does her website. Her website may have a link or more info on the Houston enzymes. She and her sons use the Houston enzymes.

 

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

 

I am not sensitive myself. I just have a limited understanding of sulfation and how some people have a problem with this.

[julia24]

Thanks for the info, orthomolecular. I couldn't access the PP presentation, since I don't have Microsoft Office (I'm on a Mac & haven't come across it yet for a decent price). But the other link had info I had never read before. I stayed up late trying to make as much sense of it as I could.

 

I have a definite tic reaction to B6. I have not isolated B12 & Folic Acid to try them separately. I have been taking 2 TBLS. blackstrap molasses to build iron up in my blood after blood-loss induced anemia, and it contains B12. I have had no noticeable reaction. Now I'm wondering if I couldn't isolate the B12 & Folate with no problems.

 

There was so much new info, I had to bookmark to come back again later. I couldn't absorb it all on the first read.

[orthomolecular]

That site does have an HTML option. I wanted to post it for you because this document is written by someone (a nurse, I think) from the Pfeiffer Treatment Center, which I think does have excellent information.

 

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:mAJ6r7...t=clnk&cd=2

 

I have never heard of anyone having any reaction to vitamin b6. Of course anything is possible. But I wanted to mention to you that usually people with problems with phenols are the high histamine type (histadelic). Histadelics will react to folic acid and nicotinic acid (flushing niacin) and sometimes to b12. And I mean that they may feel more depressed or possibly more anxious because those nutrients actually raise histamine levels in the body. (I don't think folic acid or b12 should trigger a tic, though.)

 

But that is strange that you have a trigger from taking b6. I don't have seizures or tics myself but have read that these two things are symptoms of a b6 deficiency. I do have a severe b6 deficiency though.

 

So I think you may have a reaction, though not necessarily a tic, from taking folic acid. And, you should only take niacinamide (not niacin) if you have high histamine levels (which I think you may have).

 

I am not an expert on this but believe that you can have a build up of the wrong type of sulfur (sulfites) which need to be cleared from the body. And epsom salts is one product some people will use. But it is not the only one. Of course you should really consult with a medical professional to treat this problem appropriately. (It may be a challenge to find a doctor who understands this process.)

 

Sulfur dioxide is used to prevent browning or oxidizing of many foods like french fries, avocados or guacamole, lettuce, wine, dried fruits, etc. You might want to try avoiding these foods if you think you (or your family) have an overload of sulfites already in the body. But you do need to supplement molybdenum (and the right form of sulfur) because molyb plays a role in helping the body get rid of sulfites.

 

Years ago they would use a combo of sulfur and molasses as a spring tonic. Molasses does contain some sulfur. Molasses is surprisingly high in some other minerals too.

 

This post seems like it explains this in pretty simple English.

 

http://www.speechville.com/boards/viewtopi...2ae682069a52708

 

That post mentions the use of cysteine. Like I said in my earlier post, sulfur-contain amino acids (SAAs) are the best way to get sulfur into your body. I have read that if you don't have enough cysteine then vitamin b6 may not be able to function correctly. Cysteine is basically made by your body when you eat protein containing another SAA methionine, but only if you have enough vitamin b6 in your body already. This may be a catch 22 thing where taking vitamin b6 is not working because you don't have enough cysteine because your body doesn't have the vitamin b6 to make it from methionine. This is the only explanation I can come up with why you would have a reaction to vitamin b6.

 

I know sometimes I can find it hard to wrap my brain around some technical concepts which are presented with lots of jargon and a convoluted writting style. This topic of sulfation is not that well known about by most people. And the information on this topic is still rather limited on the net.

[julia24]

I have never heard of anyone having any reaction to vitamin b6.

 

Yes...someone else on this board has a child who reacts to a B Vitamin (or vitamins) as well. Is it Chemar maybe?

 

My grandmother, who raised me, was told by the doctors that B Vitamins supplemented the nervous system & that I should take a B-Vite complex each day. They also told her starting the day with protein with a complex carb helped tics.

 

So she sent me off to school each day with a lovely cocktail of my two biggest triggers: a B-Vitamin supplement and turkey lunchmeat (nitrites and all) on a piece of caramel-colored "wheat" bread. The poor woman, she was really trying, but you can imagine what my school day was like.

 

How would you know if you were a high histamine type? I've never had seasonal allergies, and I have never had true food allergies. I have food & chemical sensitivities, but they only manifest themselves as tics--not as your typical "allergic" responses--runny nose, watery eyes, hives, nothing like that.

 

-Julie

[orthomolecular]

No, I am aware that folic acid and nicotinic acid cause problems for some people. But I was under the impression that most types need to supplement b6 (and I have never heard of anyone reacting to b6). Are you sure that you are reacting to b6, because that is a new one. I think you may react to folic acid.

 

You can ask a doctor to test your blood for histamine levels. This is one possibility. I also know that trying just 50 mg. of nicotinic acid (the niacin form that causes a flush) will indicate a high histamine level if you flush from that dose. You would need to understand more, I think, before trying this test. You may have a flush and it could be unconfortable for you. You might be better off talking to your doctor to have a simple blood test done.

 

I don't know your histamine levels. I do know that people with sulfite problems are usually high histamine types. They need to supplement methionine which lowers their histamine levels; but methionine contains sulfur. The allergies may or may not be present for some types. You and your other family members may all have high histamine levels. It can run in families. If you can find a doctor who treats this then you may be able to help yourself and your family too. But finding a doctor who has experience with this is difficult.

 

You sound like a high histamine type when you believe that your grandmother's vitamin cocktail was probably not all that good for you. You should not take a multi vitamin and a b complex, until you have your histamine levels balanced. You may be able to tolerate low doses of folic acid and niacin after you histamine levels are balanced. But vitamin b6 should not cause any problems for you if you have high histamine levels. You would need to supplement b6 with either high histamine levels or low histamine levels.

[Cum Passus]

All,

 

A question about high histamine test is that different then what the allergy test for? My son had the pricks on the back and histamine was a 4.

 

Julia I think my son has the same type of allergies that don't show up as anything, as you listed.

Have you ever tried royal jelly? I was going to ask Chemar about royal jelly I think I remember reading about her son using it. I have a whole list of questions for her, (a little warning Chemar I get that to you before the holidays.) I'll cross off the jelly question if you answer now.

 

Thanks,

C.P.