Insomnia - Causes?

[LNN]

For the past few months - maybe since the fall - DD8 has been struggling to fall asleep. Once she's asleep, she sleeps thru the night. But the getting to sleep is a real struggle. Sometimes she will toss and turn, sometimes she'll lay quietly - but sleep won't come. Even with a parent next to her, even when anxiety isn't an issue, even when she's complained of being tired, she just can't fall asleep. It often takes 90 min - 2 hrs, so she isn't asleep until 10:30 or even close to 11pm. Any thoughts on what can cause this?

 

I'm not asking for supplement ideas. Melatonin will (sometimes) help her fall asleep. But then she doesn't wake feeling as rested as when she falls asleep of her own accord. I'm that way too. Melatonin will get me to sleep but I have weird dreams and don't wake feeling like I slept soundly. So sleep aids like melatonin or valerian root aren't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for what might be causing the problem. Prior to this, it never took her more than 10-20 minutes to fall asleep.

 

We supplement with Vit D and her last test showed her level at 66 (january). I know that sometimes, a lack of D or too much D can interfere with sleep. So I stopped supplementing for a week and no change. In addition to the insomnia, she often complains of fatigue and pain (she's been treated for lyme, her C3d level is now normal for the first time in 2 yrs, so I don't think it's an infection behind this). So I started CoQ10 about 6 weeks ago in the morning and her complaints of fatigue went away - until yesterday. But the insomnia was going on months before the CoQ10, so I don't think that's it. She's had cold sores, so I've been giving her 500mg of l-lysine every morning for 10 days. But again, insomnia has been going on for months.

 

Has anyone found that a particular supplement or food or anything - has caused trouble falling asleep? (Have also tried an earlier bedtime - no luck). Ideas?

[PowPow]

If she cannot fall asleep in 15 mins or so, have her get of bed and read something boring, like a textbook, untill she feels sleepy. No electronics after dinner.

This was the advice of our sleep doctor.

Also read healthy sleep habits, happy child by dr weissbaum. Excellent advice in there, too, even for older kids.

[lfran]

When I am hypothyroid, I always have trouble with insomnia. For me, though, I can fall asleep instantly but can never get back to sleep if I awaken in the middle of the night. Only when hypothyroid, though. When my levels are good, I can fall right back asleep.

 

I have heard that b vitamins close to bedtime can make you restless.

For the past few months - maybe since the fall - DD8 has been struggling to fall asleep. Once she's asleep, she sleeps thru the night. But the getting to sleep is a real struggle. Sometimes she will toss and turn, sometimes she'll lay quietly - but sleep won't come. Even with a parent next to her, even when anxiety isn't an issue, even when she's complained of being tired, she just can't fall asleep. It often takes 90 min - 2 hrs, so she isn't asleep until 10:30 or even close to 11pm. Any thoughts on what can cause this?

 

I'm not asking for supplement ideas. Melatonin will (sometimes) help her fall asleep. But then she doesn't wake feeling as rested as when she falls asleep of her own accord. I'm that way too. Melatonin will get me to sleep but I have weird dreams and don't wake feeling like I slept soundly. So sleep aids like melatonin or valerian root aren't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for what might be causing the problem. Prior to this, it never took her more than 10-20 minutes to fall asleep.

 

We supplement with Vit D and her last test showed her level at 66 (january). I know that sometimes, a lack of D or too much D can interfere with sleep. So I stopped supplementing for a week and no change. In addition to the insomnia, she often complains of fatigue and pain (she's been treated for lyme, her C3d level is now normal for the first time in 2 yrs, so I don't think it's an infection behind this). So I started CoQ10 about 6 weeks ago in the morning and her complaints of fatigue went away - until yesterday. But the insomnia was going on months before the CoQ10, so I don't think that's it. She's had cold sores, so I've been giving her 500mg of l-lysine every morning for 10 days. But again, insomnia has been going on for months.

 

Has anyone found that a particular supplement or food or anything - has caused trouble falling asleep? (Have also tried an earlier bedtime - no luck). Ideas?

[smartyjones]

those in the parasite circles, place much blame on sleep problems on parasites. the major is waking up in the middle of the night -- often at the same time every night. but i believe trouble going to sleep may also be blamed on them.

[dcmom]

LLM- I am sorry I don't have any suggestions that I am sure you haven't tried (daily exercise, waking early, fresh air, etc, etc)- and I know you don't want a melatonin suggestion- BUT I will just throw this out there:

 

I happened to see two minutes of Dr Oz in for Piers Morgan the other night (I never watch Dr Oz- so not sure how the quality of his advice is), but a question came up about melatonin. He said it is fine to take, but that most people take it wrong. He said it should be taken in small doses ( .5 mg) and it should be taken 1 and 1/2 hours before you want to be asleep.

 

We follow the direction on the bottle, and give my kids about 1mg 20 minutes prior to sleeping, and find for the most part it works like a charm. I do like the idea of less (of any med)- and maybe this small amount so far before bed would not cause the issues she usually has with the melatonin.

 

I figured I would put it out there. Good luck- I can tell you one thing I NEED for my own mental health, is for my kids to go to bed and sleep on time, regularly- so I can imagine how this upsets the whole house.

[nicklemama]

We give DS melatonin and taurine before bed. We've been doing this for nearly 4 yrs now. Started treating for MTHFR a yr ago. Was hoping it would help. He had very low tryptophan when tested a yr ago. Maybe if we ever get him methylating better and infections under control, we will see an improvement. Wish I had answers.

Edited March 7, 2013 by nicklemama

[mama2alex]

Low Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone (MSH) can cause sleep problems and increased pain. When you did the Shoemaker testing, was she tested for that? If so and it was normal, did she change schools since then? Schools commonly have mold problems because of the flat roof construction (makes them vulnerable to water damage). If she wasn't tested for MSH, I would test her level and if low, take another look at the mold issue (I know you've been very diligent at your house, but as you know, this stuff is insidious).

[Hopeny]

LLM with my DD ever since she has been on all of these abx/treatment she has had some difficulty falling asleep, previously was a champ. I started to give her Vitamin D earleir in the day as it seems to make her a bit hyper. I have wondered if the probiotics have some type of stimulatory action as I give them right before bed. I have been using melatonin this week frankly for my own good and because I want her to get a good nights rest. I know Lyme causes insomnia but its not that as once she is asleep it is fine. I suspect someting in our treatment regimine but I don't know what.

[sf_mom]

I think what your DD is experiencing is technically called sleep on-set Insomnia. I've also been reading a lot about heavy metals and because I've got early waking in one child and heavy metals issue I picked up on the following comments

 

"There are three types of insomnia. Sleep-onset insomnia refers to insomnia that is characterized by difficulty falling asleep once a person has gone to bed. Once sleep does occur (often hours later), such people tend to sleep well for the rest of the night."

 

"Toxicity: The buildup of toxins, especially in the colon and liver, can be another significant cause of, or contributing factor to sleep disorders. When the functioning of the colon and liver becomes impaired as a result of internal toxicity, a variety of health related problems, such as allergies, candidiasis, gastrointestinal problems, and heartburn, can soon follow, all of which can interfere with healthy sleep. In addition, certain heavy metals, such as mercury, which is commonly found in people with dental amalgam fillings, or those who regularly consume sea foods such as shark and tuna, and people who have received vaccinations, can also experience sleeping problems. Overall, toxins of any kind can also potentially deplete your body's supply of the nutrients and hormones necessary for regulating healthy sleep patterns."

 

You might consider testing hormone levels or for heavy metals.

 

http://www.naturalhomecures.com/member/sleepdisorders.html

[Mayzoo]

Kiddo has trouble sleeping when gut yeast seems to be problem. When I give or increase her probiotics it seems to resolve after a few days to a week. She gets hyper/wired almost like manic and cannot sleep.

 

I have been putting her to bed lately with her light on and her door cracked open a bit allowing her to read until she falls asleep. This, with abx, has solved most our sleep anxiety issues. After she falls asleep (about 20 minutes), I turn off the light and close the door and she is fine with that.

[LNN]

Well, no B vitamins given at bedtime.

Only give 1mg melatonin when we give it and when we do give it, it works in about 15-20 min. regardless of if it's 8pm or 10:30pm when we're desperate after 2 hrs of tossing/turning. She just doesn't wake well rested when we use it.

 

She sometimes gets tryptophan in the a.m. when she's had a few moody days in a row - to help with anxiety induced by a teacher who doesn't "get her". Tryptophan turns to serotonin before it turns to melatonin, so it helps with anxiety and she's never gotten sleepy from it. I've tried a few times to give it an hour before bed with no effect.

 

She's taken probiotics at bedtime for 2+ yrs and the sleep problem is only for the past few months, so I don't think that's it.

She only pulses abx every other day and she was treated for lyme or chronic infection for a year in 2011 - that ended over a year ago and her C3d levels are now normal, her GI issues are resolved. So no signs of infection playing a role.

 

We did test for metals and mercury was in normal range as were all other metals. Slight elevation in lead (like 6 where below 5 is normal) and she took EDTA + artimisinin for 6 weeks right after that for EBV, so I doubt it's a metals thing. She also takes milk thistle and liver levels are tested every 4 months - always normal. She also takes garlic for anti-yeast and anti-films. No yeast issues since March '12 when we started garlic (yeast was common before that). Parasite testing has come back negative.

 

It doesn't seem to be anxiety - the insomnia occurs even with a parent next to her, with a night light. She just says she cannot get comfortable.

 

Mama2alex - we did not test MSH on my DD - did that for DS. So I suppose I could ask about that. The problem is that the nearest labcorp is an hr away. And her allergies, which were causing a chronic dry cough, have greatly improved since we bought mattress and pillowcase allergy covers and got vigilant about keeping her room well vacuumed/dust free. We've replaced carpets with wood flooring, emptied the basement of all organic materials, take apart/clean the washing machine drum for mold every 6 mos., fumigate the bathroom and her bedroom with thieves oil...so it could be mold but if it is, I'm stumped on what more I can do. She's been in the same school for 3 yrs - no carpets. Has the sleep problem even on school vacations.

 

The thyroid is one for my radar. Her TSH has come back ever so slightly elevated (like 5.2 when 5 is the cutoff for normal). But not enough to do more than monitor, per the LLMD.

I do appreciate all the thoughts. If I ever figure it out, I'll let you all know!

[pr40]

our dd9 had hard time falling asleep last year when she was 8. we attributed it to restless leg. It would take her, at times, just as you describe until 10:30 or 11:00. She would sleep until 7am.

Sleep is too complex to find a definitive solution. why not go with melatonin if it helps her fall asleep?

It might not be the best quality sleep but then, hay, it is sleep. Her body might adjust to melatonin if you give it a chance.

I assume, dd does a lot of physical activity.

With melatonin (1.5mg) our dd9 falls asleep in 20 minutes and sleep from 9:15 to 7:15.

We learned not to expect too much.

[philamom]

Don't have any suggestions on the root of the problem - this happens to my daughter for a few weeks after receiving IVIG, but I realize that is not your situation. Some things I like to do (help a smidgen) is to make dd's room cold a few hours before bed, use a sleep machine or fan to distract her thoughts on trying to fall asleep. Sometimes she worries about not be able to fall asleep. I'm also not crazy with the results I see with melatonin anymore. I've been using Calms Forte 4 kids- more for placebo. Any new foods introduced at dinner?

[LNN]

Any new foods introduced at dinner?

 

Ha - you're funny! No - she's been quite diligent and hasn't let any new foods past her lips in years.

[MomWithOCDSon]

Also read healthy sleep habits, happy child by dr weissbaum. Excellent advice in there, too, even for older kids.

 

I think that's actually Dr. Marc Weissbluth. Yes, great book, and he's followed it up with some information and strategies for older kids, too (you can Google him). A friend of DH's recommended this book when I was pregnant with DS, and then we found out Dr. Weissbluth was in our insurance group and local to us! He was DS's pediatrician for his first 2 years of life, until we left the city for the suburbs and couldn't see trekking back down into the city's abyss for every ear infection after that! Great doctor, great sleep advice, worked like a charm for DS!