Insurance requirement/vaccinations

[JAG10]

The doctor's office called yesterday..... I need to sign a letter that I am refusing dTap and meningitis for dd13. These are the shots she is out of compliance with (not really sure why Gardisil isn't on that list because she hasn't had that either.) This needs to occur, either up-to-date on those two vaccines or sign the letter by March 26 for my particular insurance to keep paying this doctor (who is supportive of parental vaccine decisions.) Other insurances are requiring this as well, but apparently my insurance has the quickest deadline.

 

 

I ask the admin., "so what does signing this letter mean to my girls?" She says nothing; it's part of ObamaCare but we have the right to refuse vaccination in PA. I have a bad vibe this is just the first step in a progression to support the ever increasingly pushy vaccine agenda. Wow, are they getting pushy lately!!! Hospital workers, college students with any practicums in health care or education are being jabbed left and right. I'm sure mandated teacher flu shots are coming.

 

The insurance company needs this letter verifying we are refusing these vaccines. huh. Haven't received the letter yet. Googled some last night and found one by the AAP about vaccination refusal...charming. There were also opposing refusal letters obviously authored by those who question vaccine efficacy and safety AND don't like the way the AAP document is worded or designed.

 

Here's a copy if you want to see it yourself.

 

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/pediatricians/pdf/RefusaltoVaccinate.pdf

 

My dd13's tetanus titers were measured in 2010 and she was fine. I will get them remeasured. Based on her response or lack of response to other conjugate vaccines, I don't think the meningitis one would take anyway, so why risk it?

 

Anybody else gotten this call?

 

Wonder if the ACLU is going to defend parents who don't want their children vaccinated?

[LNN]

Wow - this is scary. I can understand the CYA for a dr. to have something on file saying the parents were informed and declined anyway. But the language in the AAP "template" just screams "insurance won't pay for your kid's medical bills from meningitis/flu/etc because you could've prevented it with a vaccine and chose not to". Despite that fact that these vaccines are not 100% effective and in some cases (guardsil) less than 50%? effective.

 

Yet insurance doesn't pay for all the extra medical expenses of autism, does it? So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Do you know if you can chose to selectively immunize or do you have to take a full opt-out. There's no way I'm giving my kids the meningitis vaccine or guardisil but would consider a pertussis and tetnus as two separate, single-dose vaccines (w/no preservatives). But I get the sense you don't get to cherry pick, that it's all or nothing and therefore I'll have to take the religious exemption.

[nicklemama]

Wow, alarm bells are going off. Blaming Obamacare is the easy way out. I see the same repercutions mentioned above.....no flu shot, no coverage if you get it. Yikes.

[JAG10]

I don't know about that. My girls were fully vaccinated until 2010. I believe the letter that you sign lists the vaccines you are refusing. So you could get parts of the dTap listed that you refuse. We have a medical exemption letter that is global.

 

Flu is not included in the letter. Clearly there is some differentiation being applied between vaccines like flu & Gardisil and dTap & meningitis.

[SSS]

So, if it is against my religion to inject my child with

formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury,

animal DNA and embryonic tissues,

yet the child catches, say, the measles,

needs hospitalization

and the insurance company refuses to pay?

Sounds like a major lawsuit.

Maybe it will then go to the Supreme Court.

[LNN]

So, if it is against my religion to inject my child with

formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury,

animal DNA and embryonic tissues,

yet the child catches, say, the measles,

needs hospitalization

and the insurance company refuses to pay?

Sounds like a major lawsuit.

Maybe it will then go to the Supreme Court.

 

Yes, but neither you nor I have the funds nor the emotional resources to be that parent who carriers the banner.

 

JAG - I see how the AAP letter allows you to cherry pick but to get into 7th grade in CT, you need to provide proof of meningitis, Tdap and prior 2 immunizations to chicken pox (which my kids have had). And I went to check - there is no pertussis only vaccine. it can only be had as a combo Tdap. The medical exemption form is more complicated than the religious form (which is all of two sentences) and I don't want to invite trouble for my LLMD. But whether religious or medical, I don't see how you'd be allowed to argue that you were ok with one vaccine but not another. It seems like you have to do all or nothing. I just can't come to terms with doing a meningitis vaccine in a Pans kid.

[JAG10]

So, if it is against my religion to inject my child with

formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury,

animal DNA and embryonic tissues,

yet the child catches, say, the measles,

needs hospitalization

and the insurance company refuses to pay?

Sounds like a major lawsuit.

Maybe it will then go to the Supreme Court.

 

I'm sure it starts out with old fashion bullying and pressure. So, if you are on the fence, this will push you toward vaccinating. Individual states are having their own battles as to how far they will push vaccination and education policies.

 

I have graduate students who I supervise for speech-language pathology and they are required to have their titers measured and re-vaccinate if necessary. In a class of less than 30, 3 were administered boosters that did not take. I wonder how far they will go to keep re-administering? These people have over a hundred thousand dollars invested in their education and then to pass go, they need to be jabbed.

[SSS]

CA pulled the ability for personal exemptions, and at the last minute allowed religious exemptions.

While the pharmaceutical companies and powers that be are protected from vaccine injury lawsuits,

the information presented here that insurance companies may get the ability to not treat/ pay for any malady deemed preventable by a vaccine, and the vaccine was opted out,

gave me pause to wonder if this situation might be the catalyst

that breaks open this issue- creating possible serious legal ramifications (religious rights and freedoms)

The issue of the 'greater good'.

And, surely, CA's new law that young girls (under 18) can be given the Gardisil vaccine WITHOUT their parents consent or having to be present, has to blow up somewhere, sometime in the courts (please God)

 

It is an issue that provokes deep feelings in me.

And I don't have a vaccine injured regression link to my PANS/Aspergers child, almost 8 years old, who has been fully vaccinated.

But the CDC reported statistics of 1 in every 88 children/ 1 in 52 boys now having autism, statistics that are taken from public school records only, not including ADD/ADHD,

is a environmental epidemic that is altering the human race. And no, my opinion is not concrete or convinced it is solely linked to vaccinations. But a genetic epidemic is scientifically impossible.

Very valid points about the parents sitting on the fence, or like I was, naive about the overdosing schedule.

As an Age of Autism reader, I myself was unsure about both of my healthy, neurotypical children getting updated boosters this year- the Pediatricians can be very persuading, (emphatically using the word DEATH at me), and my 15 year old may have been prevented from playing high school golf, his dream. Or the Grad students from pursuing their dreams.

 

This post triggered me- sorry for the long output- but I long to see some sort of healing and movement forward in my lifetime on these issues.

Edited March 5, 2013 by S & S

[JAG10]

I was a trusting parent who is now an on the fence parent. I'm not convinced all vaccines are poison for everybody....but they are for some and the adamant denial and failure to pursue that fact masked behind first-denial and second- the " greater good" makes me resentful and untrusting of the entire system. The louder the call to mandate vaccinations becomes the more reluctant I feel. I never thought of myself as a conspiracy chick, but it'd be a lie to say I'm not feeling more and more suspicious.

I will ask doctors I trust about tetanus for my dd13.

So in CA, do the students have to consent? Or they are vaccinating them all with Gardisil want it or not? How is that not assault???

[SSS]

I was a trusting parent who is now an on the fence parent. I'm not convinced all vaccines are poison for everybody....but they are for some and the adamant denial and failure to pursue that fact masked behind first-denial and second- the " greater good" makes me resentful and untrusting of the entire system. The louder the call to mandate vaccinations becomes the more reluctant I feel. I never thought of myself as a conspiracy chick, but it'd be a lie to say I'm not feeling more and more suspicious.

I will ask doctors I trust about tetanus for my dd13.

So in CA, do the students have to consent? Or they are vaccinating them all with Gardisil want it or not? How is that not assault???

 

 

**One of my biggest frustrations is the inability to even TRY- you cannot tell me that with the billions in pharmaceutical profit coupled with today's technology, we cannot 'GREEN' these vaccines -and other countries are revising the vaccination schedule, we will not even have a conversation about it-

Medicare patients will be dropped unless they follow a set schedule, no matter what- private Pediatric practices will drop care at their desire if not following their mandated vaccine schedule- no exceptions.

Multiple, 5-7 diseases given to an infant every 3 months at the same time, is insane.

Why cannot they acknowledge our fears, and work with us? Because to open the dialogue a crack would cause a cascade? The cascade is already here.

Let's not talk about the Hep B vaccine, a sexually transmitted disease vaccine which in 2005 contained mercury, more mercury in that shot than the EPA deems safe, given to my daughter on her 1st day of life! Without my consent or knowledge!

Whew.

Yes, the Gardisil law is in place in CA. It can happen. Without consent. I have not heard of it happening yet- I suspect the fear of an outpouring of rage and publicity is keeping it from happening- yet?

The recent experience with my DS 15- who I signed a personal exemption form with his middle school 2 years ago when he was 13, after I received a threatening letter stating they would kick him out of middle school on a certain date if I did not show an updated dTap booster (and no where on the flyer, even in tiny print, did it disclose CA right to personal exemption)

entered high school this year, made the golf team, had to get a sports physical showing updated booster-

I talked to my son- and I would have allowed it if forced to choose - he is healthy and neuro-typical, and he agreed/wanted it if necessary- but the walk in clinic who did the sports physical never said a word-

he did not receive the shot, and is playing golf.

Look- of course, I do not want a resurge of a few possible diseases that potentially might be fatal.

But going from 10 shots in the 1980's for children under 5 years of age,

to 36+ shots in 2013 for children under 5 years of age-

we were okay in the 80's...

Ironically, all 3 of my children are vaccinated, save for a few boosters. But after I got educated a few years ago, dealing with my dd's immune system failures, fearing they may possible lurk in my other 2, I cannot bring myself to allow more. I am overwhelmed with the responsibility. I have said when they are 18, and want to update a few boosters, it is their decision - of course, allowing my PANS/ Aspergers child will be capable of making those kinds of medical decisions for herself at that time.

Edited March 6, 2013 by S & S

[landamom]

What she said ^^^^^ S n S - exactly!

[reactive]

For LLM or anyone else- why is the meningitis vaccine worse than tdap? I am trying to decide on this issue as well as my DS PANS is going to 7th grade this fall. I am very torn as to what to do for my son. We have a local PANDAS doc here, not one of the "major experts" and she is pro vaccine but does have our son on zithromax.

[mama2alex]

So, if it is against my religion to inject my child with

formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury,

animal DNA and embryonic tissues,

yet the child catches, say, the measles,

needs hospitalization

and the insurance company refuses to pay?

Sounds like a major lawsuit.

Maybe it will then go to the Supreme Court.

 

Yes, but neither you nor I have the funds nor the emotional resources to be that parent who carriers the banner.

 

JAG - I see how the AAP letter allows you to cherry pick but to get into 7th grade in CT, you need to provide proof of meningitis, Tdap and prior 2 immunizations to chicken pox (which my kids have had). And I went to check - there is no pertussis only vaccine. it can only be had as a combo Tdap. The medical exemption form is more complicated than the religious form (which is all of two sentences) and I don't want to invite trouble for my LLMD. But whether religious or medical, I don't see how you'd be allowed to argue that you were ok with one vaccine but not another. It seems like you have to do all or nothing. I just can't come to terms with doing a meningitis vaccine in a Pans kid.

 

LLM,

You could check titers on Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertussis, and make a decision from there. Tetanus can be given as a stand-alone vaccine, but I think the protection lasts much longer than Pertussis, so your kids may not even need it. When I was a kid, we'd get a booster if we got a nasty cut, say on a fence, or get the booster every ten years. I think once they lumped it in with Diptheria and Pertussis, they stopped talking about how long the Tetanus vaccine lasts. Pertussis I wouldn't even bother with because 1)so many vaccinated kids get it anyway (I personally know 5 fully vaxed kids who've contracted Pertussis), 2)it is not dangerous and very treatable in older kids (Zithromax), 3)our pediatrician told me yesterday that even though my son show's no titer response (and never has, even though he's fully vaxed for it), there may be some protection there - I guess the Pertussis titers are as unreliable as the vaccine. As for Diptheria, there have been zero cases in the U.S. in the last 10 years. (See this chart from CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.PDF)

 

I think if you do decide to give them certain vaccines and not others, a medical exemption could work. The CDC lists very specific reasons not to give particular vaccinations, so maybe your doctor could work with that.

[landamom]

It's ironic, we fully vaxed our dd8 up until she was 15 months and then stopped when I got strong enough to stand up to the pediatrician because I didn't want the MMR. I don't know, call it mothers instinct. I believe the vaccines she did have set up her immune system issues and if she had gotten the MMR who knows where she would be now. Regardless, we have had her titers checked for most of it - Diptheria - no immunity. HIB - no immunity. HEP B (which they OVER VAX for) - no immunity. Pneumococcal strep - less then minimal immunity too all the strains. I have no idea what to make of it, but I feel Ike all I did was inject her with chemicals and I don't think I will ever forgive myself.

[SSS]

LLM, you could sign the religion waiver, and do what you want- no need to follow up and tell them you got DS a tetanus booster if you decide to do it.

 

Now that CA has removed personal exemption waiver, and replaced it with religion waiver, it has got me thinking.

Can a school staff person really quiz you on your religion? What is the definition of a religion, but a set a personally held convictions and beliefs?

I am envisioning a conversation like this:

'Mrs. X, I see you have signed a religious exemption form. Could you state the name of that religion?'

'PANS. It's called PANS.'

'I'm sorry, excuse me?'

'PANS. Like pots and pans. PANS. It is a higher power that has ruled my life, and in fact, I've tithed my entire savings account over to it.'

 

 

(sorry, kind of losing it)

Edited March 6, 2013 by S & S