Can language and social skills (in addition to sensory deficits) be ca

[tpotter]

I have one son who is diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome and another who is not diagnosed with Autism, but who has demonstrated difficulty with speaking at various times during PANS flares. In both cases, I have seen tremendous improvement since treating for PANS (in my children's cases, they are dealing with multiple infections, and mold, plus I suspect immunizations played a large role.) The current research for PANS does not make mention of the correlation of language and social skills as symptoms of PANS, but both my children had tremendous improvement in language and/or speech skills (depending on the child), and my son who is diagnosed with Asperger's had tremendous improvement with social skills since starting treatment.

 

This is an unofficial poll, meant purely for seeing what other people have found about the correlation between Autism, Autism-like, and/or symptoms typically associated with Autism (language, sensory and social skills deficits) and PANS.

 

I know that sensory deficits are currently mentioned in the list of symptoms for PANS, but I included it in this poll, only because the three symptoms of language, social and sensory are the 3 common symptoms of Autism.

 

Even if your child is not diagnosed with Autism (like my younger son), but has language or social skills deficits, please answer the questions, anyway.

 

If any of you want to list how your children improved, you can include this, as well.

 

 

 

Thank you.

Edited January 11, 2013 by tpotter

[JAG10]

I answered the poll with my more significantly impacted dd13 in mind.

 

My younger dd9 even at her worst would have never been dx'd with language, social or sensory deficits, but as an SLP I noticed word retrieval difficulties (more circumlocution, vague terms rather than specific, and fillers; like, um, uh) spike with both girls when in an episode of pandas/pitand. My dd9 doesn't become less social, but she does become more emotional/anxious which interferes socially, no?

 

I didn't check sensory-motor, but when dd13 was at her worst she had significant vision issues...does that count?

 

I guess it all depends on how many layers you have on your particular onion.

[dut]

Hi - I said no for language skills but for my ds there was a very sudden onset of stuttering at age 3 that resolved with abx. It lasted 3-4 weeks or so and is the only language processing issue I've noticed with either kids.

[MomWithOCDSon]

My DS suffered from all three of the behavioral manifestations you've mentioned, at one point so much so that two different docs diagnosed him with Asperger and PDD-NOS. He stuttered, repeated words, couldn't finish a sentence, started over and over again. Walked dragging one leg behind him. Has never had trouble looking people in the eye, but could not read facial expressions or body language.

 

These behaviors slowly disappeared once we started abx. The leg-dragging was the first to go, and the language and social things seemed to sort of improve together.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, though, we also had DS in counseling/social work for the social things, and I'm certain that helped him learn (or relearn) to "tune into" people more effectively once he'd healed sufficiently.

 

The two doctors who'd originally given him the Asperger's and PDD-NOS diagnoses later removed them, frankly a little flummoxed by how much of a turnaround they saw in DS in a relatively short period of time.

 

Now, he still can get ultra-focused on something of his interest, to the exclusion of most everything else, so there's still something of that Asperger-ish quality to him at times. So I tend to think there's something genetic or organic in that pattern, and the PANDAS exacerbates/exaggerates those characteristics?

[tpotter]

My younger son (not Asperger's) has had episodes of stuttering, word finding, lisp, and dysarthria at his worst. I know the dysarthria has to do with weak muscles or low tone, and he does get sudden loss of tone during flares, so I'm wondering if maybe the speech issues have to do with the sudden change in tone? I'm just so curious as to why, if so many of us, as I suspect, have children with language issues, it is not included in the white paper or on the website (or in any real literature that I can even find?)

[kthomas]

My ds8 experienced stuttering, repeating of words and phrases when trying to formulate sentences. He was and is verbally gifted (at age 7 reading on 6 th grade level) with an advanced vocabulary, but seemed to falter when expressing himself because of the stuttering and repeating of words and phrases. He has struggled socially, being impulsive and intrusive into other children's boundaries. He also had sensory issues to light, textures of fabric, and food. I also noticed the fixation on a topic and the inability to stop talking about it. Since starting abx of azithromycin 250 mg. daily we have seen vast improvement in all three areas.

[peglem]

I marked improvement in language w/ treatment to indicate improvement in communication. My daughter remains nonverbal, but communication is hugely impacted by flares.

[tpotter]

I marked improvement in language w/ treatment to indicate improvement in communication. My daughter remains nonverbal, but communication is hugely impacted by flares.

 

 

In what way is communication impacted for her?

[peglem]

I marked improvement in language w/ treatment to indicate improvement in communication. My daughter remains nonverbal, but communication is hugely impacted by flares.

 

 

In what way is communication impacted for her?

When not in a flare she communicates (mostly wants and needs) through gestures and her iPAD comm. program. When she flares, she has great difficulty doing this- I don't know if its because her thought processes are interrupted, or she is physically incapable.

[tpotter]

I marked improvement in language w/ treatment to indicate improvement in communication. My daughter remains nonverbal, but communication is hugely impacted by flares.

 

 

In what way is communication impacted for her?

When not in a flare she communicates (mostly wants and needs) through gestures and her iPAD comm. program. When she flares, she has great difficulty doing this- I don't know if its because her thought processes are interrupted, or she is physically incapable.

 

 

Maybe brain fog coupled with motor skills (perhaps like the difficulty many kids who can write suddenly have with writing?)

[LNN]

TPotter - I didn't take the poll b/c our treatments have gone beyond "traditional" PANS treatments - e.g. in addition to abx for Pandas/lyme, we've also treated KPU and methylation and convergence insufficiency. So to say "PANS treatments helped these issues" feels incomplete in my case. Things are too intertwined for me to boil it down into two questions.

 

But...didn't know if you've seen this paper from Storch et al from 2011 http://psychiatryonline.org/data/Journals/NP/4399/jnp00411000391.pdf

(thanks EAMom)

[T_Mom]

T...this paper from Storch et al from 2011 http://psychiatryonline.org/data/Journals/NP/4399/jnp00411000391.pdf

(thanks EAMom)

 

 

THIS PAPER SHOULD BE PRESENTED AT AAP CONFERENCE !!! EXCELLENT AND PRACTICAL!

[LNN]

T...this paper from Storch et al from 2011 http://psychiatryonline.org/data/Journals/NP/4399/jnp00411000391.pdf

(thanks EAMom)

 

 

THIS PAPER SHOULD BE PRESENTED AT AAP CONFERENCE !!! EXCELLENT AND PRACTICAL!

Can you tell me what it says in plain english?? Sent it to the school psychologist for a translation but haven't heard back. Neurotransmitters, I get. Psych testing terminology, not so much.

[tpotter]

TPotter - I didn't take the poll b/c our treatments have gone beyond "traditional" PANS treatments - e.g. in addition to abx for Pandas/lyme, we've also treated KPU and methylation and convergence insufficiency. So to say "PANS treatments helped these issues" feels incomplete in my case. Things are too intertwined for me to boil it down into two questions.

 

But...didn't know if you've seen this paper from Storch et al from 2011 http://psychiatryonline.org/data/Journals/NP/4399/jnp00411000391.pdf

(thanks EAMom)

 

 

My opinion of PANS treatment is biomedical treatment. When I say PANS, I don't mean specifically strep, so anything biomedical goes. For instance, my family uses abx, chiropractics. homeopathic, supplements, and have used PEX and IVIG. As far as I'm concerned, anything goes (if that helps.)

 

And, I agree that this should definitely be presented at the AAP.

[nicklemama]

I voted for you. My DS was diagnosed w/ aspergers just a few weeks before the pandas dx. He no longer fits the criteria for aspergers since pandas treatment.