Should I let DD go on a class trip to nature center - in the woods?

[Hopeny]

DD is suffering so badly from late Lyme. We are knee deep trying to get rid of it. I ripped out all the bushes in my back yard. Should I let her go on a class trip to a nearby nature center located in the woods? She has thick curly hair and I think all but impossible to find a tick. My first instinct was not to sign permission slip, but I am wondering if I am going overboard. What do other parents do?

[philamom]

I wouldn't (JMHO). Same scenario for us last week - I kept my dd home. They're calling for a real bad season of lyme disease on the East Coast. Get your daughter well first - most imp right now.

 

If you do send her - don't forget the protection.

[LNN]

Every year, the 6th graders in our district go on a 3 day camping trip. My 4th grader already knows he won't be going. Am I robbing him of memories? Yes. But I might also be robbing him of memories of spending Jr High with lyme. If we hadn't spent the past 3 yrs fighting for health, I'm sure I'd feel differently. But it isn't worth the risk, IMO.

[philamom]

Off topic- but in constant worry mode-

 

My daughter is just starting to return to school for some hours. On Friday the school had an event with a lot of parents there. Many of the parents wanted to know what was up with my daughter and how she is doing. Some already know about the issues with strep from previous years, but I haven't told too many about the lyme. My daughter doesn't want her friends to know because she feels like many already avoid her. I did mention it to one mom who has invited my daughter over in the past, though I didn't go into detail about chronic lyme. She told me last week she found 4 ticks on her couch. Her dog brings them in. She said she doesn't take her dog in the woods, so it's just from their back yard and walks. So it got me thinking about all our friends with dogs, and whether I should be putting repellent on my daughter when she is visiting, even when I know they won't be going outside. We are animal lovers, esp. my daughter, so I know she is rolling around and playing with the pets. But people will think I'm crazy (inc my hubby) if I put repellent on her for inside playdates. What do you think - overboard?

[SSS]

You know, it is a hard question to answer- unless you lived with chronic or gestational Lyme disease.

No, my dd's will also not be going (when the time comes) to their 3-4 days in the woods school trip in 5th grade (4th grade? Can't remember)

My older son went years ago, pre-Lyme dx's- and frankly, I wasn't thrilled with the chaperone stories, either.

 

But I am forever changed.

We don't own any pets, and I will never, ever own a cat or dog for the rest of my life- feral cats got me into part of this mess 15 years ago, I believe.

My Father, whom I adore, is an avid hiker- throughout his life, and I joined him on many majestic hikes during my life (and never to either of our knowledge together pulled off any ticks.)

No more. I will not walk in the woods or up in the mountains again. When he visits this summer, or I see him in Colorado, I will only walk on paved streets, I don't even trust sidewalks very much.

As for my girls, until they are 18, I will be as protective as I can. We've never been a camping family, anyway. But I am scared. When they are older, I think they will understand why I was/am this way.

Over-reacting? I don't feel like I am. Lyme disease and co-infections has been the biggest hit in our lives together.

Honestly, my biggest fear is I won't be able to pull my dd, and possibly myself, out of these infections.

[fightingmom]

This is a really difficult question to answer. I do think that I would be extremely uncomfortable with 3 days camping as mentioned in another post. However, I really struggle with the fact that many of these kids are suffering internally and socially with the fact that they are "different". They hang in to the fact that they are sick, have to pop a milliOn pills a day, come home early to stay on medication schedules, or miss sleepovers because of meds or embarassing symptoms, deal with being sick physically and whether or not they ate going to tell or hide it from friends. They miss school for doctor appts and specialists and less time on family vacations because most of us go broke paying for medical care, etc. My son has expressed many times in tears that he wishes he could just be "normal" - it breaks my heart.

 

It's hard for me to picture keeping my son home for a field trip...even if it does feel like the kiss of death to send him into the woods. There is also the side of me that feels like I can't shield him forever, they are in the yard, they will be in pets and they will be in soccer fields, etc. My DS14 told me he found a tick climbing up his side in the shower!!! Unattached, and he looked it up on the Internet to see for sure if it was a tick, and it was, but he flushed it down the toilet before I could inspect it. Did I freak? Yeah...A little...still am a little. But I also used it as an opportunity to talk about ticks again and the importance of checking and to try to remind him again to stay out of the woods (he won't, he's 14 and that's what boys do...wander through the woods, chuck things in the stream, still cigarettes from parents that smoke, I get it...).

 

Last week my husband came home and said his client told him she walked her dog around the block in the street as when she got home she picked probably 60 ticks off of him. She stopped officially counting around 45. They are everywhere and I'm not sure we can avoid them.

 

Maybe education/reminder is key -- for everyone; long pants, pony tail and a baseball cap might be an option. Or talking with the teacher about having a big lesson on Lyme disease and ticks before going in the trip? Printing out fliers for the teacher to pass out and educate other parents, etc. Reminding all the kids and having them check themselves and their friends for ticks at lunch break etc

 

Just thinking out loud, not trying to invalidate any of you -- deep down I have the same fears.. I just think sometimes the damage emotionally is equally as hard on them. I hate to keep "robbing" my son from every little thing and sometimes feel like I really can't keep him in a bubble as much as I'd like to.

Edited April 30, 2012 by fightingmom

[philamom]

Fightingmom - I agree with you, but I will not send my dd to her 3 yearly school field trip (day) into the woods, not even with protection. I will teach her the science lesson, and/or maybe take her to an indoor scince museum, but at this time while she is still fighting to get better, I will keep her home. Her immune system couldn't handle another assault right now - maybe when she is better.

 

Unfortunately, some of the 14 year old boys that I see at our LLMD's office are not out wandering thru the woods, chucking rocks in the stream - they are walking with canes, using a wheelchair - many are not.

 

Yep, you are right, education/ protection is best, but for a little longer I think I'll sorta hold onto that bubble.

Edited April 30, 2012 by philamom

[SSS]

Well, this whole thread got me into an emotionally charged (and I'm on Tindamax, ack!) with MY 14 year old son. Who does not have Lyme disease, and has been nonchalant to my Lyme disease-

He and my X-husband take fishing trips, stay in cabins, and I was told yesterday they are going again this weekend.

I phoned my XH, who is actually pretty cool, and he is aware, but my son started rolling his eyes, got arrogant with me- didn't go over well with me, shall we say.

But with him, albeit he has limited exposure, as he is my math/science straight A no sports kid, I do have to trust him- I can't tell he and XH not to take this trip.

But he sure got educated last night :-/. I went through the whole 'I may look okay on the outside, but I'm not'. What to look for, what to do, what can happen. There were some tears on my part. I made him sit, look at me, and listen.

I put this detailed conversation off too long, I guess because I didn't want to worry him. But he needs to know, be aware, for himself, for others. We don't have visible ticks here in our neighborhood, in the house.

But yeah, the 14 year old boys are hard, I can control the young girls easier- and they are more intimate with living with it, sadly.

.

[momcap]

This thread really has me thinking!

 

We live on a farm with 35 acres of long grass, woods, a lazy shallow river, and deer everywhere! We moved here 5 years ago to enjoy the property and we play out there as often as we can. We have all sorts of animals - cats (rescued from ferals), dog, sheep, chickens, horse, even a llama. I've taken in orphaned bunnies, squirrels, and raccoons and cared for them until they were old enough to release back into the wild. I keep a huge garden. I'm afraid my ignorance about lyme got us into the predicament that we are in - my whole family is positive for lyme disease. I only ever saw ticks 4 summers ago when I picked them off one of the cats several times. The kids got sick that same fall. I haven't seen another tick since then, but the dog had 3 bullseyes last year. Then I had a probable EM rash 2 years ago after catching and crating our pasture chickens. But I'm also convinced I got lyme first as a young teenager, far away from this farm. I was practically disabled for years with no reason, despite seing dozens of docs. My symptoms resolved in my early 20s, but I'm sure I passed it congenitally to at least 1 of my children. DS8(PANS/lyme) has had major issues since birth.

 

Am I ready to move? No. I could re-home all my animals and move back to the city, but I know many people in cities who have lyme. We have placed ourselves in a greater risk area, so now we are diligent about what we wear, where we walk, and checking for ticks after being outdoors. I've come to accept that lyme is part of our environment. If I had to live in concrete without animals I think I would be horribly depressed and just waiting to die. So we are fighting lyme, being smarter about exposing ourselves to it, and going on with life. I would send my kid on the field trip, but that's just me. I completely understand why others would not.

[fightingmom]

I can see everyone's perspective on this. Everything that every single one of you has said has value. I think the problem here is that we are all stuck between a rock and a hard place and there is no good solution.

 

We all have to go with our guts and do the best we can as parents to our children. Some days that may mean we do one thing, another day that may change -- circumstances may change the way we feel about the same situation tomorrow. All we can do is do our best and hope for the best possible outcome in the end.

 

I have faith that all of our kids will get healed. I've never seen a more determined group of parents ready to do whatever it takes for their kids. We will get there.

[philamom]

I can see everyone's perspective on this. Everything that every single one of you has said has value. I think the problem here is that we are all stuck between a rock and a hard place and there is no good solution.

 

We all have to go with our guts and do the best we can as parents to our children. Some days that may mean we do one thing, another day that may change -- circumstances may change the way we feel about the same situation tomorrow. All we can do is do our best and hope for the best possible outcome in the end.

 

I have faith that all of our kids will get healed. I've never seen a more determined group of parents ready to do whatever it takes for their kids. We will get there.

 

I have faith that all of our kids will get healed. I've never seen a more determined group of parents ready to do whatever it takes for their kids. We will get there.

 

 

Amen! Nicely said fightingmom.

[Hopeny]

Thank you, thank you to everyone, I feel something of everyone's posts. I decided not to send DD on this trip. I worry too about sending her to other houses with pets, but then on the other hand we just got her a dog because she has been so despondent and wanted one so badly - he is definitely helping her feel better. He is a rescue which makes me more nervous, the first thing we did was take him to the groomer and got most of his fur got off, then put tick repellent on. We are not taking him outside much, I am hoping they will rescue each other. On a side note, I find it amazing that they test dogs annually for Lyme and the co-infections, yet the don't do it with people in endemic areas! I promised DD she could go to sleep away camp next year, many of her friends are going this year (they go really young here, only second grade) and she was very upset that she could not go. I guess I will cross that bridge when we come to it.

[philamom]

Hopeny-

I attended a support meeting last night where the focus was prevention. The guest speaker was a director of TBDA, prevention. He shared some info. on how to protect your pets (dogs). He said it would be helpful to put a smaller fenced in area (containment) in the grass, away from the perimeter of your property - especially if the perimeter is woodland or landscaped beds. But only if your yard is safe. He also mentioned topical sprays/spot on treatments, immunization, grooming to keep hair short. He said to absolutely not sleep with your dog. He mentioned a certain tick (maybe lone star?) that can give you a co-infection from just touching the tick if you have a cut or opening on your hand. Fortunately, there are products for pets (frontline) to help lower the risk.

 

Other tidbits I picked up. He recommended Avon Bug Guard Plus Expedition as a repellent. He wasn't crazy about Deet, but mentioned Ultrathon if you're going to use it - didn't like it for kids. He also uses Repel Lemon Eucalyptus, but wasn't really certain about it's effectiveness on ticks. He highly recommended the Insect Shield line and/or using peremethrin on your clothes. He said to spray peremethrin on your outside shoes/sneakers, let dry completely before wearing - do it monthly. Especially good for kids going to camp. socks too. Suggested Damminex tubes (spring & fall) esp. around wood/brush piles, stone walls, rock piles, sheds, etc. And of course the usuals- avoid leaf litter, ground covers, deer trails, edge of woods, bottom of large trees, stone walls/sitting on logs (mice habitat - major tick exposure), bird feeders- robins carry alot of ticks because they are ground birds and live longer (plus the mice, which are nocturnal love the left over seed on the ground). Stay away 7-10 feet (danger zone) from edges of woods, backyard landscape beds, marsh, sheds.

 

I'm sure most of you know all this by now.

 

I'm in PA- high risk of exposure- so this may not be necessary for some.

Edited May 1, 2012 by philamom

[fightingmom]

Thanks! This was helpful! I already use those types of products on my dog and even the cats despite the fact that they are inside only.

We do not allow the dog on furniture, and you have just assured me I am not paranoid by wanting to have the yard sprayed. I may look into my natural or less toxic options, but I am going to make sure the yard is safer for us this summer and when taking the dog out.

[philamom]

Thanks! This was helpful! I already use those types of products on my dog and even the cats despite the fact that they are inside only.

We do not allow the dog on furniture, and you have just assured me I am not paranoid by wanting to have the yard sprayed. I may look into my natural or less toxic options, but I am going to make sure the yard is safer for us this summer and when taking the dog out.

For the most part, this guy was very non-toxic, EXCEPT when it comes to ticks. He recommends spraying your yard (at least perimeter) three times a year (mid May, mid June, and October). I think he mentioned pyrethoid- not sure about pets though. He said in 2013 & 2014 (developing now) there will be some great non-toxic property sprays for ticks. He showed some pictures of high risk properties (I think one was my house - ) with heavily landscaped areas of ground covers, perennials, bushy shrubs. I need to do a good clean up and thinning out. He said to absolutely never pile your kids up with leaves (old time favorite).

 

I don't usually drink - but I had one last night.

 

Best suprise of the meeting - I got to meet an old (doesn't post anymore) forum gal - kmom!

Edited May 1, 2012 by philamom