Artemisinin Flare-ups

[JuliaFaith]

My ds14 is taking this again. Last time he flared for 5 days, baseline for 2, flared for 4 days, baselined for 2 etc. until flaring for 2 days then had T&A. So he never really finished with it. He started again 3 months ago and has only had a 2-day reprieve here and there during that time-frame. The dosage recommended by the dr. put it at 200-400 mg a day. So I started out at 200 for 5 days then went to 300 for a few days with no flare-ups. Then, as soon as he started on 400 mg the flare-ups started and continued. Someone on this forum had pulsed their dosage but cannot remember who it was. Just to give him a bit of a break, I went down to 300 mg and that did not help, so went to 200 mg which has given him some time to recoup a bit (and do some school work) since he is almost back to baseline.

 

Realize this must be good for him (Babesia?) but trying to find some middle ground. He sees dr. again in a few weeks. I figured since she had 200-400 mg that we could work with it a bit. I do make a 'cocktail' with other juices/herbs with the artemisinin. Any ideas would be welcomed.

 

Thank you.

[MichaelTampa]

My ds14 is taking this again. Last time he flared for 5 days, baseline for 2, flared for 4 days, baselined for 2 etc. until flaring for 2 days then had T&A. So he never really finished with it. He started again 3 months ago and has only had a 2-day reprieve here and there during that time-frame. The dosage recommended by the dr. put it at 200-400 mg a day. So I started out at 200 for 5 days then went to 300 for a few days with no flare-ups. Then, as soon as he started on 400 mg the flare-ups started and continued. Someone on this forum had pulsed their dosage but cannot remember who it was. Just to give him a bit of a break, I went down to 300 mg and that did not help, so went to 200 mg which has given him some time to recoup a bit (and do some school work) since he is almost back to baseline.

 

Realize this must be good for him (Babesia?) but trying to find some middle ground. He sees dr. again in a few weeks. I figured since she had 200-400 mg that we could work with it a bit. I do make a 'cocktail' with other juices/herbs with the artemisinin. Any ideas would be welcomed.

 

Thank you.

 

I don't know if I'm the someone, but I would take it for 4 days on, then 3 days off. Dr. K. will talk about building up antibodies for it with continued daily usage, and I found this pattern to work pretty well. Some also take a week off per month in addition to not every day of the week for similar reason. I did go through on and off cycles, though not precisely like that. None of this really had to do with smoothing off the herxing though, and I didn't have a real issue with that to deal with.

[JuliaFaith]

Thank you, Michael, for your feedback. Do you recall the dosage?

[sf_mom]

Four days on and three days off at 400 m.g. per day. One pill in morning and one pill in evening. One of our Dr.'s follows Dr. K's protocols closely and we are pulsing for reason stated in Michael's post. My older son is on the same protocol and he is approximately 57 pounds.

 

Treating for Babesia is rough. We've been treating since July for myself and older son and only 6 weeks for younger DD. I finally feel like we are making headway for two of us. Younger DD is still in thick of herx'ing and we are only at 1/2 the prescribed dose of the Mepron and not on artemisinin yet. I will not be upping her Mepron until after the holidays. I too am taking it slow to make things a little more manageable in terms of Herx'ing.

 

-Wendy

[JuliaFaith]

So SFmom you are using a pill form. Thank you for sharing.

 

Son is using a crystallized/powder form and mixing it with water/grapefruit juice (1 cup water to 1/4 cup juice), virressence, quintessence, lipoic health powder, and Lipo C (probably some support for other things in this mix!). Mix for 2 min. with a mixer then put in a jewelry cleaner (yes...) for 15 min. because it does something on a molecular level that I am not advanced enough to understand. Put it in the refrig. and use for 2 doses (actually, I double the mixture). It is so bad tasting, but my son plugs his nose and drinks it and now chews on papaya enzyme to get rid of the taste.

 

I think the pill form would be a bit easier. lol

 

So good to hear that the two of you are actually making headway after almost 5 months. Not sure how long Babesia takes to treat on average. It is nice to have some flexibility in treating so herxing is not going on all the time, while others do not have that option. I wonder if it makes treatment take longer?

 

Best wishes for you and your family.

[aidansmom]

Aidan does artemisinin - 300 mg 2x a day but only on Mon, Wed Fri and only every other week. He also takes Mepron for Babesia also on the same days. His antibiotics are on the same days also. He is 50 pounds. He has been doing this since the beginning of Oct.

 

The first couple of months seemed pretty tough especially by the end of the "on" week but I think I am starting (in the last month) to see that he actually seems better on the "on" week and then have flares near the end of the "off" week. Also in the last month seems like I feel he has been making progress in his behavior (ADHD, impulsiveness, etc) and his ability to communicate with us.

[aidansmom]

Aidan does artemisinin - 300 mg 2x a day but only on Mon, Wed Fri and only every other week. He also takes Mepron for Babesia also on the same days. His antibiotics are on the same days also. He is 50 pounds. He has been doing this since the beginning of Oct.

 

The first couple of months seemed pretty tough especially by the end of the "on" week but I think I am starting (in the last month) to see that he actually seems better on the "on" week and then have flares near the end of the "off" week. Also in the last month seems like I feel he has been making progress in his behavior (ADHD, impulsiveness, etc) and his ability to communicate with us.

 

Aidan does not swallow pills. I use artemisinin in capsule form. I feel awful as it tastes soooo bad, very bitter. I mix the contents of the capsule in liquid fish oil of all things and make him take it with a syringe. I think the fish oil actually takes a bit of the edge off. I also choose to mix it with fish oil becase it seemed easy to mix with oil and also the mepron he is taking is supposed to be taken with a fatty snack. I don't really consider fish oil to be a snack but at least it is fatty! I can't always count on him eating a particular item I offer him but at least I know he is taken the Mepron with some fat!!! Bur it is by far the hardest of all his meds to take. I wish he would learn to swallow pills - so much easier for him.

[MichaelTampa]

Thank you, Michael, for your feedback. Do you recall the dosage?

 

 

I used Nutricology's Super Artemisnin product, which, per capsule, contains 180mg of artemisinin and 20mg of the sweet wormwood oil. On days I took it, it was 3 capsules with breakfast and 3 with dinner, so roughly 1200mg daily. These doses for me were based on energetic testing. I did find it interesting to note that I had read somewhere the relapse rate is much better with daily use of 1200mg compared to 400mg or 800mg ranges, based on some study. This might have been in Buhner's book, I don't remember for sure. Of course, if 1200mg daily is too rough then perhaps working up to it is wiser.

[JuliaFaith]

300 mg 2x a day but only on Mon, Wed Fri and only every other week. He also takes Mepron for Babesia also on the same days. His antibiotics are on the same days also. He is 50 pounds. He has been doing this since the beginning of Oct.

 

The first couple of months seemed pretty tough especially by the end of the "on" week but I think I am starting (in the last month) to see that he actually seems better on the "on" week and then have flares near the end of the "off" week. Also in the last month seems like I feel he has been making progress in his behavior (ADHD, impulsiveness, etc) and his ability to communicate with us.

 

Aidan does not swallow pills. I use artemisinin in capsule form. I feel awful as it tastes soooo bad, very bitter. I mix the contents of the capsule in liquid fish oil of all things and make him take it with a syringe. I think the fish oil actually takes a bit of the edge off. I also choose to mix it with fish oil becase it seemed easy to mix with oil and also the mepron he is taking is supposed to be taken with a fatty snack. I don't really consider fish oil to be a snack but at least it is fatty! I can't always count on him eating a particular item I offer him but at least I know he is taken the Mepron with some fat!!! Bur it is by far the hardest of all his meds to take. I wish he would learn to swallow pills - so much easier for him.

So good to hear that Aidan is showing some improvement! Interesting pulsing too - thank you for sharing. You sound very creative in getting the meds in him - that is great. At the beginning of all of this, my son could not swallow pills at all and you are so right about it being bitter!

 

Your comments about the ADHD and impulsiveness sound so familiar. Have thought it was some adrenal herb he was on and other herbs. Is that typical behavior with babesia? Makes home-schooling interesting to say the least.

 

Best wishes on treatment.

[JuliaFaith]

I used Nutricology's Super Artemisnin product, which, per capsule, contains 180mg of artemisinin and 20mg of the sweet wormwood oil. On days I took it, it was 3 capsules with breakfast and 3 with dinner, so roughly 1200mg daily. These doses for me were based on energetic testing. I did find it interesting to note that I had read somewhere the relapse rate is much better with daily use of 1200mg compared to 400mg or 800mg ranges, based on some study. This might have been in Buhner's book, I don't remember for sure. Of course, if 1200mg daily is too rough then perhaps working up to it is wiser.

Wow - 1200 mg! Just brought him down to 200 mg/day. How long did you take that much? How did you do during that time? It sounds like we should go back up to 300 mg on my next batch of 'cocktail'. It could be the energetic testing the dr. did to get to 400 mg. Thank you again.

[MichaelTampa]

Wow - 1200 mg! Just brought him down to 200 mg/day. How long did you take that much? How did you do during that time? It sounds like we should go back up to 300 mg on my next batch of 'cocktail'. It could be the energetic testing the dr. did to get to 400 mg. Thank you again.

 

I took it for about 6 weeks straight the first time, before hearing about the rotating it on and off, at that point I had recently started testing bad for it, so perhaps the antibodies to it thing had kicked in. But, in total, probably 3-4 months of it counting both time on and time off. I did fine with it. There are just a couple/few treatments that have really caused issues for me, mainly fatigue. I did fine with the artemisinin, it helped a good bit but didn't notice anything from it on the bad side.

[sf_mom]

We are instructed to take the pills with grapefruit juice on empty stomach as well. We are doing so much that the grapefruit juice prior to eating has fallen off the list. If we have troubles getting rid of the Babesia I am sure we'll revisit the grapefruit juice.

[JuliaFaith]

Michael - Good to hear you did so well with the Artemisinin. The time-frame for taking it is interesting as well. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

Wendy - I wonder what is with the grapefruit juice? Am lucky my son loves grapefruit juice even tho he cannot stand the 'cocktail.'

 

Wishing you all a better new year this next year!

[LNN]

Dr. K. will talk about building up antibodies for it with continued daily usage

 

Ok, can someone explain this to me? It makes no sense to me. If artemisinin is an anti-malarial/anti-viral, how you could you develop antibodies to it? And if you could, why would taking it steadily vs. pulsing make any difference - your body is going to make antibodies to an antigen regardless of whether it sees it a few days a week or every day.

 

Are you talking about the fear that the malaria/babesia can develop resistance to the artemisinin? Would that be the reason for the pulsing? Something about this isn't clicking for me. Can someone explain?

 

Also, anyone used this for virals (EBV, HHV-6, cytomeglovirus)? And did you pulse for this as well?

[MichaelTampa]

Dr. K. will talk about building up antibodies for it with continued daily usage

 

Ok, can someone explain this to me? It makes no sense to me. If artemisinin is an anti-malarial/anti-viral, how you could you develop antibodies to it? And if you could, why would taking it steadily vs. pulsing make any difference - your body is going to make antibodies to an antigen regardless of whether it sees it a few days a week or every day.

 

Are you talking about the fear that the malaria/babesia can develop resistance to the artemisinin? Would that be the reason for the pulsing? Something about this isn't clicking for me. Can someone explain?

 

Also, anyone used this for virals (EBV, HHV-6, cytomeglovirus)? And did you pulse for this as well?

 

 

I don't know if I can really explain it to you, as much as make clear what Dr. K. said at a conference I was at. As a reminder, by the way, for those without access to Dr. K. and/or his team, the DVD's are something they sell, I think well worth the money as the conference was tremendous.

 

Anyway, he really did say that your body can/will develop antibodies to the artemisinin if given too regularly. So, he recommended 5 days a week and then also 1 week off per month. So, no, nothing about the bugs getting resistance, truly a worry that your body would fight the artemisnin to the point where it would be destroyed before it could be useful. I have to say that my energy testing of good and then bad and then good and so on after breaks were taken seemed relatively consistent with his recommendations. Maybe it's not that different then the food allergies which people claim we can get from eating the same food day in and day out?

 

I do believe he also said that taking the artemisinin liposomal may well avoid that affect. Not sure how familiar you are with that, but true liposomals are made with use of ultrasound technology, which may sound fancy but can be purchased via a $30 jewelry cleaner. He discussed/recommended this during the conference. You can find liposomal recipes on the web without too much effort, I think, although if anyone wants direction on this, let me know and I'll try to point you in the right direction. I did do that for a brief period so I have a small amount of experience with it. Liposomal compounds basically have the special thing (artemisinin or vitamin C) somehow inside a fat molecule, or something like that. Your body (or body's cells?) can absorb the fat more readily, and then, bam, the other thing gets absorbed quickly as well. Babesia may well love the fat and be attracted to it, and then you have a surprise waiting for it. Anyway, the liposomals sort of avoid the regular digestive process, and perhaps that's how you avoid making antibodies to it. He also showed making a "cocktail" with artemisinin and a bunch of other yucky tasting stuff at this conference. He put phospholipids in the cocktail as well, and, as they are a necessary ingredient in liposomal compounds, he charactarized the cocktail as sort of a low quality liposomal mixture.