Histamine, WOW!

[peglem]

Haven't read the whole thing- but very comprehensive!

 

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/88/3/1183.full.pdf+html

[melanie]

Tried real hard Peg ,do you know what raises histamine? How can you tell ?

 

Melanie

[peglem]

Tried real hard Peg ,do you know what raises histamine? How can you tell ?

 

Melanie

Nope! I'm suspecting that my child has very low histamine levels...antihistamines make her crazy-even the ones that block receptors in the stomach to decrease acid. Lots of antihistamines out there, but the discovery that low histamine can cause health problems is relatively new and the realization that histamine is involved in so many body systems is new.

I'm wondering if L-histidine (used by body to make histamine) would help.

 

This article- I think I'm going to have to comb through it one section at a time and take notes to digest it.

[JAG10]

I'm really interested to hear what those of you who can read and understand this think.

 

For those of you who have discussed low brain histamine with Dr T, is the thought that our kids have always been low or does the autoimmune process deplete the body's ability to produce or regulate neuronal histamine?

 

IDK, maybe that question doesn't even make sense.

[melanie]

when danny was taking celebrex his md wanted him to take previcid (or something like that ) he took it one or 2 days and hacted bad ,bad..I had told his md he cant take that now I know why..But he can take benadryl(i think) no issues humm???

 

Melanie

[Christianmom]

Does anyone know if there is a test for low brain histamine?

[peglem]

Does anyone know if there is a test for low brain histamine?

 

I do know what raises histamine. Vitamin B12 injections do. So does niacin and histadine. Histamine occurs in food as a result of microbial enzymes converting the amino acid histidine (present in all proteins) to histamine. All foods subjected to microbial fermentation in the manufacturing process contain histamine. Included in this category are cheeses, fermented soy products, other fermented foods (e.g. sauerkraut), alcoholic beverages, and vinegars.

 

Foods exposed to microbial contamination also contain histamine in levels determined by the extent and rate of action of the microbes. Histamine levels reach a reactive level long before any signs of spoilage occur in the food. This characteristic has important implications in fin fish, where bacteria in the gut are particularly active in converting histidine to histamine. The longer the fish remains ungutted, the higher the levels of histamine in the flesh.

 

Some foods such as eggplant and spinach contain high levels of histamine naturally. In addition, a number of food additives such as azo dyes and preservatives mediate the release of histamine.

 

Some of these chemicals such as benzoates occur naturally in foods, especially fruits, and may have the same effect as the food additive in releasing histamine. http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/lowhistamine.htm#foodsource.

 

Also Carnosine http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T441722.html which releases histamine and prevents wrinkles (gonna get me some of that!!!) Also histamine increases inflammation. Now there's a double edge sword.

 

Yes there are blood tests to tell histamine levels http://biocenterlab.org/tests/misc/histamine.shtml Odd both high and low histamine cause psychological symptoms. My son's IG... says he's very allergic. I would think that would mean high histamine...

 

Odd thought, I wonder if the headache in our kids after IVIG is from benedryl lowering histamine?

 

Nancy

Thanks for this...very informative.

I never give my child ibuprofen and she gets IVIG every 3-4 weeks. She seldom has side effects, but I wonder if raising her histamine level would increase SEs.

[philamom]

I'm confused. Is Dr. T saying low histamine is a problem or both low or high is a problem?

[philamom]

Thanks Nancy.

[MomWithOCDSon]

Thanks for the long paper! I've only skimmed it thus far, but like some others here, I'm trying to understand what thru-line there is for our PANDAS kids and low versus high histamine. Any and all feedback appreciated!

 

If Dr. T. feels that low brain histamine is a component in PANDAS kids, does anyone know what he thinks/knows about HIGH histamine?

 

I've seen low histamine related to movement disorders (including tics), so is it possible that PANDAS kids with lower histamine have a higher incidence of tics while PANDAS kids with higher histamine levels are less inclined toward tics?

 

And Nancy, I know there's a gut/brain connection for many neuro-substances like serotonin, so is your point about the foods that contain histamine similarly related? If one tends to eat histamine-heavy foods, is one's brain automatically going to have increased histamine levels?

 

Is it possible that anxiety itself can drive histamine production, and not just be a byproduct of it?

 

Here's why I ask these things:

 

My DS14 seems to have extraordinarily high histamine levels, so high, in fact, that he takes an OTC allergy med (Zyrtec) almost year round, accompanied by a prescription nasal spray, plus benedryl before bed at night; without these interventions, he spends his entire day sneezing, rubbing his eyes, etc. He's also had eczema since birth, and even now, he'll develop patches from time to time -- usually on his wrists, left index finger, and crooks of his elbows.

 

What DH and I noticed in an almost dramatic way was how these eczema patches faded to nothing -- quickly -- in the 2 weeks he had off between summer school and the regular school year starting. These were 2 very good weeks for him during which his OCD was also well under control. Meanwhile, he went back to school this week, and by the second day -- despite all the allergy meds and other supplements remaining in place -- the eczema patches are back, and he's sneezing his head off, especially in the morning while he's getting ready. I will say, he is visibly more anxious now that he's trying to settle into high school, though his OCD (knock on wood) remains in fairly good control.

 

So what's driving what? From a layman's point of view, it seems to me his anxiety is increasing his histamine levels, rather than the other way around.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[dcmom]

Nancy-

 

Interesting

 

I know next to nothing about histamine,

 

I know Dr T is hypothesizing it plays a role- he is thinking low histamine. My kids were both tested, and normal. I do not see any signs of histamine issues either way, with them.

 

Low histamine (I think) is thought to play a role in bipolar.

 

My conclusion- this is all a shot in the dark, the scientists/docs know very little, and sometimes what they think is backward if not just completely off (I am not talking about DrT- he is great- just the whole medical/ scientific community in general).

 

If you think the anxiety is causing the histamine issues- you are probably right....

[peglem]

It looks like histamine levels can be linked to pyroluria as well. I'm not a big fan of Pfeiffer Treatment Center, but I thought this was interesting:

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Major%20Mental%20Illness%20Biochemical%20Subtypes

[dut]

momwithocdson - could something else be driving the histamine production? Could it be environmental?

 

Are Summer and regular school in the same buildings? Could mold be playing a part? Are they very new buildings with lots of VOCs maybe? Both near large water bodies?

 

I read a really interesting article about cyanobacteria (blue/greeen algae) and the increased rate of ALS and alzheimer's and other degenerative disorders closer to bodies of water. Got me panicked 'cos dd has a fish tank in her bedroom.. that baby is going :-) Just got to get rid of it without a meltdown.

 

Just wondered if it could be environmental....

Edited August 26, 2011 by dut

[MomWithOCDSon]

momwithocdson - could something else be driving the histamine production? Could it be environmental?

 

Are Summer and regular school in the same buildings? Could mold be playing a part? Are they very new buildings with lots of VOCs maybe? Both near large water bodies?

 

I read a really interesting article about cyanobacteria (blue/greeen algae) and the increased rate of ALS and alzheimer's and other degenerative disorders closer to bodies of water. Got me panicked 'cos dd has a fish tank in her bedroom.. that baby is going :-) Just got to get rid of it without a meltdown.

 

Just wondered if it could be environmental....

 

Environmental? No more than typical, I wouldn't think. I mean, his allergies are at their core environmental: mold and pollen, predominantly, though dust can be a trigger, too. We've lived in the same home for 12 years now; last year we replaced the HVAC with a new model including HEPA filtration. The summer school and this fall's school are the same building but, no, it's not new; built in the 1980s, actually. Three stories high, and his classes are almost entirely on the 3rd floor. I've been through the building many times, and there's no sign or scent of mold or dampness at all; of course, that's no guarantee.

 

We're about 8 miles west of one of the Great Lakes, and it's been a very wet summer. So certainly, there's more mold just in the environment than might have been in previous, drier years. Our home dehumidifier sucks about 5-8 gallons of water per day out of the air these days.

 

It's curious, for sure. I keep coming down to the only "common thread" being DS. He's a histamine machine!

[MomWithOCDSon]

Dear Nancy,

 

I am an Aesthetician and we always found eczema was related to a milk allergy (often) and zinc gets rid of it. I'm wondering if (thinking about that pyroluria article, maybe zinc and B6 are lacking in our kids. Does your son drink less milk when he's on Summer vacation?

 

(the other) Nancy

 

Interesting.

 

Actually, DS doesn't drink any milk at all . . . never has. As an infant, he was breastfed, and as a toddler, we were always fighting ear infections. Going off the "wive's tale/folk medicine" idea that dairy could cause thickening of the mucous and make it harder for DS to expel it before it could harbor infection, he went straight from breast milk to rice milk. He drank solely vitamin-fortified rice milk until he was 4, at which point he pretty much refused any and all milk whatsoever.

 

He does, however, partake of yogurt and some cheese. Curiously, the 2 weeks to which I was referring previously during which his anxiety, his OCD and his eczema were more or less non-existent? During much of that period he subsisted almost SOLELY on homemade yogurt smoothies (vanilla yogurt, frozen strawberries and a splash of orange juice) because he got his new braces and his teeth were too sore to chew anything. So he certainly had MORE dairy during that period than he'd had before or since.

 

Also, this just occurred to me tonight. Didn't you mention that B12 drives histamine production? But it also "soaks up" excess brain glutamate, right? DS HAS been taking a B12 sublingual now and again (in addition to his B-complex supplement that he regularly takes) when he's feeling stressed, and returning to school has increased his anxiety. He's not taken more than a couple per day, and they're only 2,000 micrograms a piece, but maybe THAT's contributing?

 

Nancy2