smartyjones

oh angela - i am sad to read your post, but of course, totally understand. would it help you to create a mantra in your mind? something like 'i am peaceful, respectful and loving with my daughter'. let all other thoughts go except just focusing on those words -- b/c it really is the truth, it's just shrouded in pandas now. i can find that helpful when i am slipping over the edge. or since you're close to ivig, 'help is on it's way'. could you work out some plan for you being involved in the rituals? my son needed me to be with him in the bathroom. it drove me crazy b/c it was usually in a sense of panic with him yelling at me and all i wanted to do was run away, certainly not be patient in the bathroom. we set up a plan that i'd take one step away each time, then i got out, then out of sight, etc. i think it also gave me a sense of control that i wasn't a slave to his panic. a long time ago someone told me "you know what they say about when you're in h***, just keep walking!"

i would try to talk to him about what he'd be willing to do in school along these lines. not that you're agreeing, you're just trying to find info about what is in his mind reasonable and what is not doable. can he be with a counselor but not other kids? etc. then see if you can work up some plans -- tomorrow, he read in the library for 1 hour. whatever will work for him, you and the school.

mama - so sorry to hear this, i know it's difficult. my son is a bit younger - 5, kindergarten - so it's not the same 'importance' as older schooling. he did not attend for the last 5 weeks last year, he was in an exacerbation(after 100% improvement with abx that i thought he was cured) and got in trouble mainly through a misunderstanding. his health was spiraling down and i kept him out the next day and then couldn't get him back. over the summer, he said he was never going back. for us, one day is so improtant b/c it just gets the snowball rolling and boy, does it build fast! of course, i don't know you or your son, but in my opinion, your son is seeing going back into school just like you'd see walking into a building with a wild lion on the loose. you may want to check out anxietybc.com. i found it very helpful with info about anxiety and plans for systematic desensitization. for us, last year, it was important to realize, he's not doing it on purpose and he'd gladly walk into a burning forest instead of going into the school building so no coaxing, bribing, punishing etc was going to work. if you're going to force it, you have to have the support on the other end of someone who understands or at least tries to understand like you do. when they're just rolling their eyes that it's defiance, it's not helpful. they've got to work like it's anxiety and be helpful and supportive, not punitive. this year has been much better, only a few times i had to leave him there with a teacher holding him. he's younger and smaller than your son and they were willing to do that. once he knew he was there, he'd get with the program. things started falling apart in school in the spring when his teacher, i think, just got tired of dealing with him and wanted him to just be like all the other kids. i no longer have confidence it's a good place for him if he's upset - he's okay if the day is normal but i can't trust they have the proper respect to help him anymore with school refusal. a few weeks ago, his teacher tried to have him stay the whole day (he leaves 15 min early). it backfired. of course, he wanted to "never go back ever again!" it's especially hard b/c i, like you, can't trust there's appropriate help on the other end. so i decided i wasn't going to have him go if it was difficult. a key here for me - i decided. so i feel better about it than being that i'm trying to get him there and just can't. there's only a small amount of time left, so maybe that can help or if you do do homeschooling, you can have it be a place of power that you've chosen rather than you're forced into a corner and just can't get him to go. i'm not sure where i think ds's health is -- he's on some newer treatments for newly found infections and i don't know if he's showing reactions or has allergies or spring cold. he's not totally healthy but of course, we need coping mechanism to live and to teach him what he may need to get through life. ds didn't want to go the following day, and we were able to arrive at a solution that if he didn't go that day, he would the next. lucky for us, the next was a 1/2 day friday with a gym event planned. the next monday, he didn't want to go. we worked a plan to walk into the school as a desensitization 'step' and agree to go the following day. he went the whole rest of the week. today is the next monday -- he's home. he wouldn't get out of bed and wouldn't open his eyes. said he "just didn't want to go. there's a reason but i just can't explain it." again, we made the deal that if he didn't go today, he goes tomorrow. remains to be seen what will happen tomorrow. he's usually pretty good if he makes an agreement. we'll see. last year, he's always say tomorrow but never go. this year, he's healthier plus we've worked the past year on finding solutions, making agreements, and systematic desensitizations. on these days (and last year) when he hasn't gone, he has to stay in his room and read or do activity books. which, he's always done until the time he's supposed to come out. i think it's b/c it's certainly the lesser of 2 evils for him. good luck and keep me posted!

i so agree with momOCD. tantrums - can't give you any insights into your question, just to tell our situation. my son's presentation was/is on the surface, totally behavioral. we were lucky that a behavioral therapist suggested pandas. he had high titers and + culture. with abx, he initally improved 100% but backslide when off and then not back to 100%. through further investigation, he's been diagnosed with lyme, toxoplasma gondii, and cytomegalovirus. the help we sought in the beginning just wanted to write him off as becoming challenging and put him on meds as a first step, write me off as mom who didn't want to see her child as troublesome or with a problem. it is still baffling and amazing to me, that we could have tried to treat him behaviorally for years. . . years! now i know his body has been contending with 2 serious bacterial infections, a parasitic infection and a viral problem. he's healthier and bigger now but at the time he was only about 35 lbs -- a 4 yo, 35 lb body with all that. how could he possibly have been acting 'normally'?! granted, some conditions are just what they are. . . from all i've learned, i think it's imperative to check out what infections/conditions may be affecting the body physically first.

michael - sorry, i somehow missed your lyme diagnosis. can you tell me when/how you got that? i've found your treatments/practicioners interesting. esp your thoughts about light in stores, etc. my son did seem to have irrational ramps in flourescent lighting. i, myself, get migraines and have sometimes had one come on suddenly in flourescent lighting stores. it's been a few times that i've wondered if that could be a trigger. my son was diagnosed about 9 weeks ago with lyme. we went to that particular dr b/c i didn't think he was necessarily healing - just seemed a collection of good and bad days. thanks.

we've been drinking so delicious coconut milk vanilla kefir mixed with OJ. . . so good!!

just to chime in . . . my son had pretty classic pandas symptoms - although not officially diagnosed b/c he's never had an official ocd diagnosis - a bit silly - we found pandas earlier than that. however, he didn't have anything that wasn't easily pandas either. he had strong strep indicators - high titers, positive culture, 100% initial improvement with abx. had no other 'typical' lyme symptoms. he had non-reactive western blot last june ('09). in jan, i thought he should be showing more of a healing path and asked one dr if we should investigate lyme again. he recommended another dr who diagnosed him with lyme. that's all 9 weeks ago. i'm not sure what i think b/c it's likely a long road of treatment. he's more or less the same but i do think i see an improvement in inappropriate upsets. so - my opinion would be to follow up on investigating if lyme is involved. i think many of our kids can have multiple infections. so for my son, i believe it's not a misdiagnosis of pandas but maybe wasn't a complete diagnosis of pitand multiple causes. good luck and know that you are not alone!

i'm so sorry to hear, wornoutmom, that this is happening. i know how utterly deflating that is when you think you're on the right track only to have a setback. we can only hope that it is a minor setback. we did have a terrible experience with zith. i do feel we're in the small minority b/c most do seem to have positive experiences with zith. yes, i'm willing to grant that it could have been a 'worse before better' experience - but i'm not sure under what circumstances i'd ever put him back on zith. it was when we were just first figuring things out - he had very high titers and a positive culture. the ped at the time (fairly useless and we then got rid of them) basically just threw him on a 5-day course of azith. they chose it b/c he's had allergic reactions to other abx previously. they totally didn't believe in pandas, thought all was unrelated. "you'll find the strep and the behaviors are unrelated" was the quote. even his bad experience with azith. he had shown some improvement - we had seen a naturopath and were trying some things - possibly due to that. once we got the test results, they prescribed azith. all previously troublesome behaviors came back with a vengenance - extreme separation anxiety. he was hiding behind chairs when my dad and stepmother were here and he has a nice relationship with them, has always known them. we finished the 5 days - i can't remember when the troublesome behaviors started. it did seem to go away a few days after finishing. we got a new ped. he put him on 30-days of keflex. within a couple of days, he was 100% back to pre-pandas self. i am a huge believer that some kids do better or worse on certain abx. silly me - i thought he was cured. after about 4-5 weeks after off the abx, he relapsed. so i so feel for your feelings of downspiral. what goes down, must go up - right? good luck.

mom - thanks so much for your thoughts. really helpful to have the older (of course, you're son, not you ) perspectives!

meg's mom - you're so wise! i love it when you comment on things. sorry you had to get so wise but it's helpful to the rest of us! yes - just repeat. you'll see what works best but at first it's best to just simply repeat. you can add "why" if she's not too out of hand, or "really?". i used to work with a woman who was excellent at sales, sometimes she'd just respond "really" with different intonations. it was stunning how it got her what she wanted when i knew it was b/c she just couldn't think of what to say next. now i may just repeat a few words like "you're not" or "that jacket". my son is younger than your daughter but it is surprising that he doesn't find this annoying. i think it's b/c he's upset and he finds it as a reassurance and comfort when it sounds like it would be just annoying. at the time he starting to spiral out of control, he doesn't really want suggestions or help, he's just thinking what he's thinking. my mom has a friend whose husband is kind of difficult she was explaining this to. the friend starting doing it to her husband and found him easier to deal with.

dcmom -- i know i post on here ad nauseam about techniques from the book the explosive child, but here i go again. i'm not sure if it would be helpful in your situation, but have you tried that? we more often have it as a problem when he simply has a problem, but you can also use it if you've asked her to do something or told her no - you quickly go into repeating what she's saying rather than again telling her what you asked or defending why you've asked it or said no. i think i find it so helpful b/c it allows me to be involved with him but not engaged in the tantrum/defiance. how do you react when she lashes out? are you upset with her behavior while she may be trying to communicate a concern? that's what i used to do. i'd be drawn into how he was acting and try to deal with that, while he was so wrapped up in whatever his problem was, he was not even able to process what i was getting at. with this, you have to suspend that her behavior might be inappropriate, you can discuss and work on that later when all is calm, you are simply working to diffuse the situation without having to give in. with this, you would repeat what she is saying. you can do it as a question, as a statement devoid of emotion, as a joke, with shock - whatever seems appropriate at the time. i think at first, it's best to do it flatly, devoid of emotion. the thing is, you're not adding any fuel but you're also not giving in so it keeps things from escalating. you're trying to get things to a point where she can be reasonable again. for my son, this usually comes up in a flight or fight reaction. whatever has brought it on, his mind slips into only that track and he can't change it. nothing else works b/c it seems to only entrench his track. with this, he's not fighting against anything and it allows him to slow down and then he's able to get off that track. i don't know what it is with him - is it ocd, difficulting processing, brain chemistry etc - that has him quickly flip into that one track. when we use this repeating, it seems to give him the time and space to be able to get out of that track. over time, we've gotten to the point where we still repeat his concern a few times but then we can work on a solution. as long as things don't escalate, he knows we're coming to a point to discuss and find a solution. unfortunately, we seemed to have lost his sweatshirt he's been wearing the past week or so. i took it from him in whole foods b/c he was swinging it around a display of cases of glass lemonade and i didn't think i needed to buy many whole cases of broken lemonade bottles. we were just in there quickly trying to grab something before going to a dr appt. somehow, we don't now have the coat. yesterday, he wore another sweatshirt to school - no problem. today, as we're going out the door, he wants that one - a sweatshirt with a hood. not the windbreaker with the hood, not the plain sweatshirt. "then i'm not going to school." -- we didn't do the repeating so well this morning but were still able to get him in the car with me bringing both jackets. still "i need that coat with the hood", "i'm not going". i say "you're not?", "that coat", flatly, not agreeing, not arguing. my husband goes right by the whole foods so he said he'd run in and see if it was there - i was supposed to yesterday but forgot. it wasn't. as we got to school, a 15 minute drive, he asked if dh was able to get it. i said, no. he said "will we ever get it?" i said, "i don't know, we can try again, but maybe not." as we drive in the driveway of school, "okay, i'll take the red sweatshirt". he put it on, went into school. he's mind switched track into the rational reality that we simply don't have that other coat, he's got to go with another option. i think he was able to do this b/c there were not other messages coming at him trying to get him to change it or provide other solutions, just stating along with him what he was stating. the only track in his brain was 'i need that jacket'. it seems if i get on to his track, then he's able to switch himself rather than me trying to switch him or help him switch. this has helped us live in the world of what is rational and reasonable for us rather than feeling controlled by what he can/cannot and will/will not do. in this story - yes, we bent a lot but it was our choice rather than feeling we were stuck and had to do it. eg. i was in whole foods yesterday and had told him i'd ask about the jacket -- i totally forgot. my husband goes right by there on his way to work and was willing to jump in and check about the coat. so it was from a sense of we choose to do this rather than we've got no choice. so, if we hadn't been able to do that, would it have turned out differently? i don't know. i do think the repeating would have brought us to a place that we can all think clearer and make decisions on how to proceed rather than everyone being escalated in frustration. also - later today, at a calm time, i will discuss that unfortunately, sometimes things get lost and we may not be able to get them back and that this all started b/c i had to take it away b/c he was swinging it first, in a store and second, near breakable bottles. you certainly address the troublesome issue, but at a calm time when it's a discussion and ask for ideas on how to change rather than when all is heightened.

thank you all so much for your thoughts and support. it is so very helpful to have you b/c there is so much that is isolative about this. thanks for the thoughts about positives of ssri, also. do we have a thread on that? or advice on how to tease out what is pandas and what is not? the million dollar question, right? yes, meg's mom -- truer words have never been spoken "YOU are the 100%. You have to take what you need from each person, and combine it with others, and decide in the best way possible, what to reject." she has been helpful and even in this discussion was so. i was just surprised she didn't seem to be aware there can be negative effects with pandas. and then it was only a few minutes later i saw the NIMH paper. she did suggest as momocd and eamom, that it's important for low dose and careful observation. please, thoughts on this. Because he's too anxious for that? Does he WANT to conquer those milestones, but he's afraid to try? Or he doesn't see the need? Is he a stressball by the end of the school day? the things that are problematic for him, are that he is not doing something expected by others (albeit, important in 'normal' functioning - such as eating lunch). he is not concerned, stressed or desiring to do them. it's as if he makes choices just like playing ball at recess vs. playing on the jungle gym. eat lunch with the kids or read on the couch. i'd like to read on the couch. yes, it would be good to be doing what everyone else is and he does need nutrition during the day, but he is not concerned. he states that he doesn't want to eat lunch b/c it's not what he started the year doing. if pushed to eat or like last week, to go out with the kids at normal dismissal, it's a big problem. i think we could conquer this with incremental steps, but this school can't do that -- perhaps next year when he's in a different school with more resources for such. he has no desire to leave with the other kids. he likes that someone alerts him i'm there and it's time for him to go. it's not as strange as being pulled out of class b/c they have mixed-ages in the class and 1/2 the class leaves at 11:30. he left before lunch until dec and we started phasing him in. the school didn't want to do it my way with concrete steps b/c they don't really get it. they thought once he was there and saw how fun it was, he'd join in. i knew he'd need full steps just like you treat a phobia. now we're almost to the end and everyone thinks it's easier for all to just leave it. i agree b/c i don't think they have the proper mindset to help -- they're tired of him and just want him to be like everyone else. i do see there could be underlying ocd that manifests this way. however, we've gotten him over other humps with systematic desensitization without thoughts and issues surfacing. it's more like he's an intense creature of habit that needs slow changing of habit. what are your thoughts about that he is not stressed, worried or concerned? i do believe it's important to learn flexibility b/c things happen that can't always be controlled but i also think he's not medically well and it's okay to cut him a break. i do see pretty clear cut patterns of flexibility when he's healthier and rigidity when he's in a downspiral when exposed to something. these two of lunch and leaving are big b/c they're entrenched but i don't feel we've got the proper support system in the current school. our dr visit yesterday was good. the dr feels he's making progress in fighting the infections. i'm thinking we continue to cut him a break and when he's more in the clear medically, we push. but of course, is this too soft and we could be helping him more?

i find myself in the same boat as most of you. dh is certainly concerned and wants ds well, but it's in a different way. once when he was lightly hassling me about trying to find the end of the internet, i said, "you know you're thankful i'm doing that", he said seriously, "yes, i am". he will read articles - if not too long - or excerpts i give him. and a few months ago, when i wondered if we should revisit lyme when i really didn't think ds had it, he said, "for someone who doesn't think he has lyme, you're spending an awful lot of time with it" -- low and behold, 8 weeks ago, dr diagnoses lyme. i also get "you're on the forum again?" this from one who checks sports scores and blogs constantly. one thing that has made an impact for him is other people's stories. he read a recent post about a child's hospitalization. it's kind of like a smack of reality - oh yeah, this is what we're dealing with. i did make him read saving sammy, i think he did have interest but also knew i'd be such a pain, it was just easier to read it. it did have a big impact for him seeing it's not so simple and he was really hit by the descriptions of how the other boys in the family were affected also. has your husband read that? could that help?

it's so sad there seems to be many of us here just white-knuckling it to get to the end of the school year!!! i'm sorry to hear you are having to deal with such a block-head. although - i am so proud of your son for trying to get through to her that that red dye is not good for him. she's an insensitvie, ignorant jerk but he was standing up to her!! too bad it didn't go through but he tried!

so sorry to hear this. i know it's so difficult when the school is troublesome. with only 5 more weeks of school and things going well at home, do you have to change it? can you just continue with what you've been doing? good luck!

last year, i was so digusted and dismayed with the general psychological profession. it was a behavioral therapist who diagnosed my son - to whom, i'll forever be grateful but she didn't have much to offer in the way of coping skills. we had a few other useless consults and a useless 4 months with a psychologist. finally, we had found a psychiatrist i felt really got it. she's treated other pandas patients and knows the medical side needs to be addressed first. she's given us some helpful ideas as far as coping. we had a scheduled appt today. we talked about an incident last week at school that has caused school anxiety. in retrospect, there could have been so many ways to handle it differently - i shouldn't have allowed the teacher to try what she did. he's generally doing well - has friends, etc but leaves school at 3 pm b/c he can't stay til 3:15 and leave with the others and still is not eating lunch at school. he may have a big incident of cognitive inflexibiilty not so often as once a month.the psych's concern is that if he's not doing things with his age-level peers, there's so much chance for further isolation and the gap only increases as time passes. added that he is advanced academically but behind socially/emotionally. she's just worried about the gap widening. i agree a valid concern. she suggested to try SSRI. she said she's treated pandas patients successfully with SSRI and seemed surprised when i raised concerns. she didn't seem aware that many pandas kids have serious troubles with SSRIs. while i appreciate her concern and agree, i also feel it's a bit mild in light of what we could be facing. now, i'm not sure she really gets the full impact and potential of pandas. the real knife to the heart came when we were discussing his recent IEP eval by the county i had just shown her. she had his file open on her desk and drew my attention to something in the eval. i saw on her desk that *%$#* blue NIH symbol of the NIH fact sheet as part of his file. now i feel she really just doesn't get it. a few months ago, we had a terrible conference with his teacher where she pretty much just purged what a colassel pain in the a** she thinks he is. previously, she'd been so supportive and helpful. now, he's doing okay in school but we're just really 'white-knuckling it' to get to the end of the year. tomorrow, we have an appt with our new dr that has diagnosed him with lyme and toxoplasma gondii infection and is the one i feel is the most on board with helping him. so i'm hopeful i won't feel so alone after that. it's crazy how i feel like the lone mom in the desert just trying to get my son well.

okay - so i'm working on my vitacost order. . . my older(8) non-pandas son takes an extrememly long time to fall asleep. he's not troublesome, just quietly tries to get to sleep. he may call for something or i'll put something in his room and i'm amazed he's not asleep yet. he has always - since a baby - been a great sleeper. this is something in the past year or so. is melatonin to help with that? how long before bed do you give it? thanks.

do you like that product in and of itself or is it that it survives abx that you like? how do you determine how many organisms are 'good'? thanks.

i'm certainly wouldn't try to tell you your dd has lyme and/or pandas. i just wanted to make sure you knew there are a few of us on this forum that have recently found lyme to be an issue for our children as well as pandas/strep. my son had pretty 'classic' pandas symptoms, high titers and a positive strep culture, 100% remission with abx. however, he wasn't really on a good healing path after i believe the strep to be gone. he spiraled down with a flu. i thought it might be worthwhile to revisit lyme. our new dr found lyme and toxoplasma gondii to be a problem for him. i believe some children may have multiple infections going on. difficult to figure out what came first and/or what enabled the other. some infections may have similar symptoms. i find it troublesome to determine what tests and when to stop - Dr. T once mentioned you can always do more tests and sometimes with great expense and maybe not much return. the symptoms you describe are also lyme symptoms. lyme can make it difficult for someone to kick other infections. it may or may not be a problem for your child. the western blot has issues and i believe by the CDC's own voice, it's not a diagnostic tool but a statistical one -- although it is widely used as diagnostic -- certainly anyone with more info, correct me if i'm wrong.

but you're her mom with those mother's instincts that I would trust. i certainly second this. are you aware headaches are a common lyme symptom? just to mention our story . . . last june, my son's western blot was completely non-reactive. in january, i spoke with one of our drs saying i didn't feel he seemed on a good healing path - just a collection of good and bad days, should we revisit lyme? he referred us to another dr. the new dr said based on his symptoms, he'd think he has lyme. (pretty classic pandas symptoms). he's treating him for lyme - only 7 weeks and we believe will be a long process. can't say yet what i think. previous - my son was 'okay' but still would have behaviors i didn't think were healthy. i do believe he is now better with inappropriate freak-outs. is it due to the new treatment? not sure, could be, maybe not. all i do know is i'll take the increased rationality.

have you checked into yeast being the culprit for the baby talk/toddler behavior. when my son first presented it was with yeast behaviors. if he's been on abx for a while, it could be a possibility.

earnest - my son, 5, has similar symptoms and it is so much worse when he is in exacerbation. in your tag line - i believe it to be a symptom, not defiance. but yes, for him, it totally presents as defiance. in fact, that is one of the reasons we have decided to change schools for him next year. i don't believe the teacher he would have would be able to step outside her beliefs to see that it's really not defiance but something deeper. we are working with the public school system and have a 'strategy plan' - a step below a 504 with a main tenant being that what may look plain and simple like defiance - is much more complicated. i've posted many times here on that issue of what he has in his head is it - his way or the highway. one time he had a tantrum b/c it was time to come inside from playing. we had given time warnings, discussed the plan - 2 more hits, then clean up and come inside (or whatever). he wouldn't comply. in the end, it was because he had hit and only got to 2nd base and needed to come all the way home so he wouldn't be stuck on 2nd all night. now, that was one that at the end of the tantrum, we discovered. there's been others that we haven't been able to uncover. you may want to search under cognitive inflexibility and see if you find anything useful in those old posts. yes, i find like you, that the lines of everything get very muddyed. what is ocd just right vs. cognitive inflexibility vs. just defiance? overall, i think it's so much brain function that they really can't control. however, i do think we need to find coping strategies for them and us. i am a big advocate of the book 'the explosive child'. have you read posts about it? i think this is most helpful for me and how i react in the face of a tantrum rather than affecting change in how he acts or reacts. we find repeating his concerns when he is ramping up is very helpful in keeping the level down. sometimes, it simply refers it back to him and he realizes it doesn't really make any sense and then is able to move on.

mom - do you also use ibuprofen? or do you use the valerian like others of us use motrin? valerian is an herb, yes? what form does it come in? thanks.

monarchcat - i have a different story that doesn't really relate but your post made me think about it. my son is 5. he knows he takes medicine and acts troublesome sometimes but really doesn't know why. i've explained but he's really not so interested. he's not really aware of what i say about anything to anyone so it doesn't enter his realm of consciousness. i think you can work out a balance of boundaries for you and your son. you can let him know that you will not divulge any specifics about him and his illness but you would like to talk about you and how your knowledge has been expanded about infectious conditions. the story it made me think of was that last week we had a busy saturday planned. after pandas5 son's t-ball game, we went to watch non-pandas 8 baseball game. then had to run to the store to buy present for a birthday party and go to the party. one of 5 yo's issues is potty delay. at 8 yo's game, 5yo sat in my lap, squirming, pushing his face into mine, singing, humming etc. it was driving me crazy and i couldn't see game. there was no way i wanted to go to a store and a birthday party with him. before going to the store, i said we had to come home and at least 'try' before store and party. he was fighting it. i said, 'you can decide if and when you pee and poop as long as it's not bothering me. you were in my lap dragging me into your not pooping, so you involved me and now i can say you have to try." i think you can have both worlds - you can explain you're not going to talk about him but you want to help expand other's knowledge and advocate for what you believe in. you can both arrive at some phrase that works like, 'since i've been touched personally by pandas' or 'i've recently become aware of infectious conditions' or something that serves both your needs and assure him you won't tell his stories directly but other information you've learned.

vickie - thanks for posting. i wouldn't have known and i do have an affected bottle. what's everyone planning on using instead? they're saying generic is okay, right? my bottle's over 1/2 gone. he had an uptick last week and i gave it a few days before school. he had runny nose/stuffy nose the week before. maybe spring cold? late allergy? - everyone was posting about allergies earlier and i thought we'd escaped it but maybe it's a different allergy. he didn't seem to have any problems with the motrin and they say danger is 'remote' but i still hate hearing this! late last week and weekend have been good so i wasn't planning on using it tomorrow.