Claire

You don't have to have TS to get tics from strep. I read studies that said that if you caught the strep early enough, you could stop the tics/OCD symptoms. This is great to hear!!!!!! I hope things continue well for your son Susanna. Claire

I wrote a long post earlier, but deleted it, since I already have more info. My son will have so many classes in middle school that use TV that I am proposing to his potential school for next year (not certain yet where he will go) that they let us loan 3-4 LCD computer monitors, one for each of his classes. I assume that music and math won't need one, but that language arts, science and social studies (and one I forget) will. They would stay in his room all year and move to his new classes the following year (we wouldn't mention it to the kids. At $450 each, that is $1350 if we only need 3. The person I spoke with was open to the idea. They may pull back when they consider that it is 15" monitors and I bet the current TV's are 19". I will keep you posted. We are a long way off, but I would rest easier thinking they were receptive to this. I just don't want to pull him out of a class nearly everyday for TV, and this is just too much exposure for him. By the way, it is tough to say, but after 10 days of vitamins and 2 days of food elimination, plus super exercise to get ready for my cholesterol retest in 90 days, my head is definitely clearer (less tired) today. I sure wish I knew what it was--too many health improvements at once to point at one of them, but I sure know that in the past, the exercise alone was not enough. Claire

Nancy, Well the voice part was the neurotherapists own 'thing'. I think they believed it and maybe or maybe not it is true. But they made him do it again and again until he said he felt fine. He felt 'punished' so finally he just said he was fine and they would say--see, it works. Thanks for the pricing info. That is affordable enough to not be an issue. I am going to see how his retesting goes (e.g. mercury, vitamin deficiencies and yeast) in June and go from there. Summer is the best time to do something like that, since it doesn't disrupt his day so much. Claire

Nancy, Phil, Andy Andy, I REALLY feel for you with those allergies for your child!! My son has a long list including wheat (most wheat substitutes too), corn, milk, eggs. So he lives so much on rice and soy. Other than potatoes, I don't know WHAT I would do if he couldn't have rice (comfort food/filler) and soy (protein). Andy, I am a skeptical of such an early TS diagnosis with no TS in the family. I hope that you get some metal (mercury) toxicity testing done, and yeast testing. The food elimination is a GREAT first step, but only part of the protocol for diagnosis of immune issues that can cause tics and other issues. Most of us here have seen remarkable success with supplements, and many have uncovered such problems. Your child is sooo young. The threads here show many available tests to inform your doctor of, and the doctor list at the top of the page shows doctors that will order them, if yours won't. Nancy and Phil Yes Nancy I remember your comments on P/N increasing your son's tics Nancy--I forgot to mention that to Phil. Phil, I just called our DAN doctor about it and his office assistant (?) said it was more to stop a reaction, and elimination/rotation was better. I have to reread Dr. Rapp on that one. As for the NAET or NMT mention by Doris Rapp, I just checked the book again. It was NAET and was discussed in her more recent book: "Our Toxic World--A Wake up call". She effectively says she saw some believable results, and just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it can't work. I know that the two are similar. From what she described, the NAET is something my son's neurotherapist tried after TV exposure: Hand on forehead and base of neck, press hard, breath in (or out) and say something like TV something. It did seem to stop his fidgetiness after a brief TV exposure (non-LCD). But they said we had to call them every time at $300/hr to do it, so we stopped. I saw no reason for him not to just do the technique on his own, but the technician said that it mattered if he breathed in or out first, and she needed to diagnose his voice over the phone to know which (Even if this were true, he could just do it both ways!) If that sounds weird and manipulative, you can understand my son's reluctance to continue. He absolutely refused after two evening voice sessions--and I offered to pay him. Unfortunately, it broke his confidence in such methods. But he might be game. I remember now, I checked your NMT list, and was having a hard time finding someone who is advanced. Can you repost that list? Jean, sorry, are you doing NMT or NAET?? I think my son might be game to try this for the screen viewing. I won't do it for foods I think, it is too hard to say, whoops it didn't work, you can't eat it after all. With the TV I can just switch to LCD again. Finally, I asked the DAN/EM doctor about my psyllium seed vs psyllium husk allergy. His assistant said he said my daily intake kept me from reacting (masked it), in some way protecting me. I asked if this was why my son got stomach aches from milk now when he didn't used to and she said yes. Now I am COMPLETELY confused. Why stop a food if stopping it makes your later reaction worse? Well, I need to wait for a real doctor appointment again--phone relays just aren't effective for complex discussions. Does anyone else understand this? Claire

Phil, I wanted to do this for my son. They give you a specified amount of the offending substance to 'provoke' a reaction, then give you a very small amount which somehow serves to 'neutralize' the reaction. I think the concept is similar to getting allergy shots with antigens. This was why I sought a DAN/EM doctor as they study this. However, my son's doctor says he no longer does this because of the time involved, and sticks with the elimination and rotation of foods to achieve the same goal. The P/N method is supposedly much faster, per Dr. Rapp. She also discussed either the the NMT or NAET method in her book. I get them confused. What I don't know for sure is if the doses are swallowed or shot--somehow, I thought 'swallowed' though. My son had a terrible stomache last night. I was racking my brain for milk exposure--since that is where the stomachache occurred before. I went back and checked a label of something new he had and sure enough, it had milk in it. He never used to get stomach aches when he had milk daily, but I was told this is normal. Hard to believe he supposed to be getting closer to being able to have milk. Claire

v106-10. He said to take 1-2 a day. I usually give 1, sometimes two. My doctor keeps them at his office, so I didn't buy them on-line. When you do mail, I am sure the company knows they must be alive/active to work, and so they must be kept cold, but I assume not frozen. Claire

efgh, Our DAN doctor recommends Klaire also, we take their "Probiotic Complex" with 5B + Lactobacillus acidophilus 2.5 B+ Bifidobacterium bifidum 2.5 B+ My son and I both tested low in the Bifido. and I also tested low in the Lacto.. From what I read of Threelac, it includes a form of the lacto. acido., but I am not clear on the difference. Claire

wjack, I am curious how you know she is 'yeasty'? I only ask because if she eats that well she must not be a carb craver, which is a sign of yeast. (Though I admit, I do low carb, so I don't crave carbs anymore and I have tons of yeast. I just did my saliva test today and got the worse result--my saliva just sunk to the bottom of the water!) That desert thing is tough--we never did deserts, but when they have a treat at school I like to compensate for it.here are possibilities: Berry smoothie (most berries aren't too high in sugars--I know Atkins thinks they are okay) You can make them thicker like icecream and have it with a spoon. We do a dark chocolate from Whole Foods with Malitol in it. We don't do sucralose or nutrasweet, but so far Malitol seems to be okay. Sometimes he eats it plain, sometimes we melt it in the microwave and roll pecans or strawberries in it. Diluted icy fruit juice with stevia (natural herb sweetener with no sugar). A friend suggested making it like a slurpy/slushy--I haven't tried that way yet. Or the same mixture, but frozen as a popsicle--they last longer when sucked on. We also do fresh real lemonade with stevia. If the carbs are low, the sugar impact is low. We don't do low grains for my son (he can't have wheat and corn, but he can have oats and rice). How did you decide to do this? Did you notice a difference? EDITED: I wrote this and then realized you stated the age of your child later! Chocolate/caffeine is not good for that age--especially if see has tics. My son gets a little occassionally--but that idea was for myself/another adult. Also, even Dr. Atkins says you shouldn't have low-carb under age 12 (and I am not sure I would do it for a child), so I really don't know how to match limited fruits with no grains, given the need for carbs. Definitely I would talk to a doctor/nutritionalist about advice on this one! Claire

I hadn't orginally done food allergy testing, but when the other tests came back, we decided that it made sense. This was the ELISA/ACT LRA results, and included food coloring, preservatives.... Remarkably, I was only allergic to a few preservatives, and not to aspartame, sucralose or food colorings (doesn't mean they are good for you though) Strong reaction Corn sugar Helminthosporium halodes Tin/Stannous Chloride (mineral--don't know what it is in...) (I don't know what the last 2 are). Moderate Reaction Barly Peach Nectarine Eggplant Psyllium seed (I hope this isn't the end for my psyllium husk fiber supplements) BHA, Pinene (preservatives) Dog dander (I knew this) Seleinium sufide and tin something (chemical, don't know what it is in...) and.... CASEIN!! and Yogurt (cow's milk) They said I can't have butter, cheese (including paramesan, brick, cottage cheese), pasteurized OR RAW milk, Yogurt, whey. So, no more occasional Starbucks decaf latte's (I know the decaf coffee is bad for me, and I only have it every couple of weeks) nor my special low carb icecream--both of which I strongly suspected I might have a reaction to. No way am I drinking that soy milk! No wheat allergy showed, but then I haven't had it in months in conjunction with my son's elimination of it. I don't mind except if the pysllium seed affects my regular intake of psyllium husk fiber--I need that low-carb soluble fiber to keep my cholesterol down. And I am not having oatmeal with no milk instead of it! Veggies are never enough fiber, and I agree with Mercola on not having grains--at least for me. Ok, so now I can report whether I notice a change in 2 weeks of elimination, and what it is. This will be interesting at least. By the way, I though casein issues were permanent, but it just said to avoid them for 3 months. Claire

Munazza, Most of our experience here on this forum is with alternative (ie non med) approaches, rather than combatting side affects of the meds. Other boards like yahoo have more people taking meds. Treating underlying immune issues can help. I read a study where people with OCD were compared against other pyschological/mental issues, and the people with OCD substantially more immune issues. I recommend food elimination or allergy tests to check for food sensitivities (yes they can cause OCD symptoms), yeast is a big one for this (try the simple at-home 'free' saliva test on another thread for starters) and metal toxicity tests... My nephew had OCD and I found out my brother used melatonin so he slept much better, and started him on reduced carb and he is much better. I think he had yeast issues, but no testing was done. Claire

Good old probiotics, in this case acidophilus...) http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/05/26/aids....reut/index.html Two strains of Lactobacillus bacteria can hook onto HIV and stop it from getting into cells.

My Spectracell vitamin list (from my son's vitamin analysis) said 1000 mg is the max for inosotil for a 6-10 year old and an 11+. I got some and if I need to give it to my son, I only plan to give 500 mg per day--same as Chemar's son. Claire

The doctors I spoke with and books I read said to avoid fruits. Dr. McC. says pears are okay--funny that is the one fruit my son still likes and eats (no more than 1 a day. We dilute grapefruit juice in half and he has this every other day--but it is technically not on the list. Gloria

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...p?showtopic=121 SInce Phil reminded me of this thread, I went looking... Interestingly, she says pear juice is okay, and pear (whole fruit) and grapefruit juice (diluted) are the only sweets (fruits) my son eats. He is doing better with proteins, it is now string cheese, soy (power bars, soy milk) and chili with turkey, and spare ribs occassionally. I just wish I could get him to like chicken again! Claire

efgh, I think you should consider compulsions/OCD tendencies also. Again, they don't have to actually have an OCD dx to have some tendencies--many people have tendencies, and it is only dx'd as OCD if it is over an hour a day or life interfering, per my understanding. My nephew used to repeat certain words (he told us that he felt he had to say them a certain number of times) and he was dx'd with OCD. I think the line between certain complex tics and OCD can get blurry--and it would be tough to understand without having a conversation with your child. I hope that you are at some point able to ask your son. It takes practice, but it can be done without putting undue attention. "Do you like to say those words, or do you feel like you have to say them?" Or count how many times he says them. If it is always 3 times per word (e.g. a certain number), that could be more compulsions/OCD. I am not trying to talk you out of a 'TS' dx--time will tell, but since it seems that you are trying to reach your own conclusions, this is just more food for thought. And of course TS and OCD can be comorbid. I hope that you do something for the potential yeast. Chemar's link on that case study showed a great help with someone with OCD, so I suspect it could make a difference regardless. Claire

efgh, phil, and jean efgh My neighbor says that one of her doctor's thinks the only way to test for yeast issues is to use Nystatin and see if the patient notices improvement!! Also, I have been giving my son magnesium taurate for 10 days now and have reduced the melatonin to 1/4 mg (from 1/3) and he is going to sleep fine. I tried 1/4 before with no luck. This weekend I will try 1/5 mg and if that goes well....1/6 next. I think sleeping with the light completely off does make a difference also. Thanks again for reporting on your success with Magnesium Taurate and sleep...wish me luck! Phil, Wow, very interesting input from Dr. McCandless on Nystatin. I had forgotten that she had that thread and now I will scour it. I wonder if Aqua-flora (which I think you mentioned to me earlier) is the same as oxygenated water. My DAN doctor said 'all water has oxygen'! Jean, I can definitely see how treating the digestive track would make a difference--avoiding offending foods and yeast treatment, and adding probiotics are all ways of treating the digestive track. But 9 months ago, I would have been confused by such a statement! I am very glad that your naturopath is sooo good. If they are on the DAN list, somewhere that protocol must play some factor in this, wouldn't you think? I know she did some similar testing early on... Claire

This came up on Braintalk so I posted it there, I think it is a good reference for here also--this question comes up a lot. I found this 2.5 years ago when my son had his tics from computer (before we identified computer as the trigger). I noted the source, but can't find it there anymore for some reason. Claire Guide to the Diagnosis and Treatment of Tourette Syndrome http://www.tsa-usa.org/ Definitions of Tic Disorders Tics are involuntary, rapid, repetitive and stereotyped movements of individual muscle groups. They are more easily recognized than precisely defined. Tic disorders are generally categorized according to age of onset, duration of symptoms, severity of symptoms and the presence of vocal and/or motor tics. Transient tic disorders often begin during the early school years and can occur in up to 18% of all children. Common tics include eye blinking, nose puckering, grimacing and squinting. Transient vocalizations are less common and include various throat sounds, humming or other noises. Childhood tics may be bizarre - palm licking, poking and/or pinching the genitals are examples. Transient tics last only a few weeks or months and are usually not associated with specific behavioral or school problems. They are especially noticeable during times of heightened excitement or fatigue. As with all tic syndromes, boys are three to four times more often affected than girls. While transient tics by definition do not persist for more than a year, it is not uncommon for a child to have recurrent episodes of transient tics over the course of several years. Chronic tic disorders are differentiated from transient tic disorders not only by their duration over many years, but by their relatively unchanging character. While transient tics come and go (sniffing may be replaced by forehead furrowing and the furrowing may become finger snapping), chronic tics - such as facial contortions or blinking - may persist unchanged for years. Chronic multiple tics suggest that an individual has several chronic motor tics (or, in rare cases, several chronic vocal tics). Often it is not an easy task to draw distinctions between transient tics, chronic tics, and chronic multiple tics. Tourette Syndrome (TS), first described by Gilles de la Tourette, can be the most debilitating tic disorder and is characterized by multiform, frequently changing motor and phonic tics. The current diagnostic criteria, as defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV are as follows: Both multiple motor and one or more vocal tics have been present at some time during the illness, although not necessarily concurrently. The tics occur many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout a period of more than 1 year, and during this period there was never a tic-free period of more than 3 consecutive months. The disturbance causes marked distress or significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The onset is before age 18. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g. stimulants) or a general medical condition (e.g. Huntington's disease or postviral encephalitis). While the criteria appear basically valid, they are not absolute. First, there have been rare cases of TS which have emerged later than age 18. Second, the concept of "involuntary" may be hard to define operationally, since many patients experience their tics as having a volitional component - either a capitulation to an internal sensory urge for motor discharge, or a more generalized psychological tension and anxiety, or both. Finally, the diagnostic criteria do not adequately portray the full range of behavioral difficulties that are commonly observed in patients with TS, such as attentional problems, compulsions, and obsessions. Differential Diagnosis Today, the full-blown case of TS is unlikely to be confused with any other disorder. In the past, however, TS as frequently misdiagnosed or undiagnosed. The differentiation of TS from other tic syndromes may be no more than semantic, especially since recent genetic evidence links TS with multiple and transient tics of childhood and can only be defined in retrospect. At times it may be difficult to distinguish children with extreme attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) from those with TS. On close examination, many ADHD children have a few phonic or motor tics, grimace, or produce noises similar to those with TS. Since at least half of patients with TS also have had attention deficits and hyperactivity as children, a physician may well be confused. However, the treating doctor should be aware of the potential complications of treating a possible case of TS with stimulant medication. On rare occasions, the differentiation between TS and a seizure disorder may be difficult. The symptoms of TS sometimes occur in a rather sharply separated paroxysmal manner and may resemble automatisms. Patients with TS, however, retain a clear consciousness during such paroxysms. If the diagnosis is in doubt, an EEG may be useful. We have seen TS in association with a number of developmental and other neurological disorders. It is possible that central nervous system injury from trauma or disease may cause a child to be vulnerable to the expression of the disorder, particularly if these is a genetic predisposition. Autistic and retarded children may display the entire gamut of TS symptoms. Whether an autistic or retarded individual requires the additional diagnosis of TS may remain an open question until testing (biological or otherwise) is available for definitive diagnosis of TS. In older patients, conditions such as Wilson's disease, tardive dyskinesia, Meige's syndrome, chronic amphetamine abuse and the stereotypic movements of schizophrenia must be considered in the differential diagnosis. The distinction can usually be made by taking a good history or by blood tests. Since more physicians are now aware of TS, there is a growing danger of over-diagnosis or over-treatment. It is up to the clinician to consider the effect that the symptoms have on the patient's ability to function (as well as the severity of associated symptoms) before deciding to treat with medication or other approaches. Symptomatology The varied symptoms of TS can be divided into motor, vocal, and behavioral manifestations (Table 1). Simple motor tics are fast, darting, meaningless muscular events. They can be embarrassing or even painful (such as jaw snapping). They are easily distinguished from simple muscular twitches or rapid fasciculations, e.g., of the eyelid or lip. Complex motor tics may be slower or ore purposeful in appearance and more easily described by terms used for deliberate actions (Table 2). Complex motor tics can be virtually any type of movement that the body can produce including gyrating, hopping, clapping, tensing arm or neck muscles, touching people or things and obscene gesturing. At some point in the continuum of complex motor tics, the term "compulsion" seems appropriate for capturing the organized, ritualistic character of the actions. The need to do and then redo or undo the same action a certain number of times (e.g., to stretch out an arm ten times before writing, to "even up," or to stand up and push a chair into "just the right position") is compulsive in quality and accompanied by considerable internal discomfort. Complex motor tics may greatly impair school work, e.g., when a child must stab at a workbook with a pencil or must go over the same letter so many times that the paper is worn thin. Self-destructive behaviors, such as head banging, eye poking and lip biting also may occur. The distinction between complex tics and compulsions may be a difficult one for the physician to make and some "complex tics" may be alleviated by medications used for obsessive-compulsive disorder. Vocal tics extend over a similar spectrum of complexity and disruption as do motor tics (Table 3). With simple vocal tics, patients emit linguistically meaningless sounds or noises, such as hissing, coughing or barking. Complex vocal tics involve linguistically meaningful words, phrases or sentences, e.g., "wow," "Oh boy, now you've said it," "Yup, that's it," "but, but..." Vocal symptoms may interfere with the smooth flow of speech and resemble a stammer, stutter or other speech irregularity. Often, but not always, vocal symptoms occur at points of linguistic transition, such as at the beginning of a sentence where there may be speech blocking at the initiation of speech or at phrase transitions. Patients suddenly may alter speech volume, slur a phrase, emphasize a word or assume an accent. The most socially distressing complex vocal symptom is coprolalia, the explosive utterance of foul or "dirty" words or more elaborate sexual, aggressive or insulting statements (e.g., racial slurs). Coprolalia is not simply obscene speech spoken in anger or to offend. Rather it is often sudden speech (typically just the first syllable of an inappropriate word) that interrupts an otherwise appropriate flow of words. While coprolalia occurs in only a minority of patients with TS (from 5-30%, depending on the clinical series), it remains the most well known TS symptom. A diagnosis of TS does not require that coprolalia be present and the majority of patients do not ever exhibit this symptom. Some patients with TS may have a tendency to imitate what they have just seen (echopraxia), heard (echolalia), or said (palilalia). For example, the patient may feel an impulse to imitate another's body movements, to speak with an odd inflection or to accent a syllable in just the same manner as another person. Such modeling or repetition may lead to the onset of new specific symptoms that will wax and wane in the same way as other TS symptoms. Some patients also describe "triggers" that almost invariably prompt a tic, e.g., another person coughing in a certain way. The symptoms of TS can be characterized as mild, moderate or severe by their frequency, their complexity and the degree to which they cause impairment or disruption of the patient's ongoing activities and daily life. For example, extremely frequent tics that occur 20-30 times a minute, such as blinking, nodding or arm flexion, may be less disruptive than an infrequent tic that occurs several times an hour, such as loud barking, coprolalic utterance or touching tics. The premonitory sensory urges tend to be present by 9 to 10 years of age. They are most commonly reported in the shoulder girdle, hands, throat and abdomen. There may be tremendous variability over short and long periods of time in symptomatology, frequency and severity. Tics typically occur in "bouts" with many tics over a short interval of time. Patients may be able to inhibit or not feel a great need to emit their symptoms while at school or work. When they arrive home, however, the tics may erupt with violence and remain at a distressing level throughout the remainder of the day. It is not unusual for patients to "lose" their tics as they enter the doctor's office. Parents may plead with a child to "show the doctor what you do at home," only to be told that the youngster "just doesn't feel like doing them" or "can't do them" on command. Adults will say "I only wish you could see me outside your office," and family members will heartily agree. Often a patient with minimal symptoms may display more severe tics when the examination is over. Thus, for example, the doctor may often see a nearly symptom-free patient who then leaves the office and begins to hop, flail, or bark as soon as he or she reaches the street. In addition to the moment-to-moment or short-term changes in symptom intensity, many patients have oscillations in severity over the course of weeks and months. The waxing and waning of severity may be triggered by changes in the patient's life; for example, around holidays, children may develop exacerbations that take weeks to subside. Other patients report that their symptoms show seasonal fluctuation. However, there are no rigorous data on whether life events, stresses or seasons do, in fact, influence the onset or offset of a period of exacerbation. Once a patient enters a phase of waxing symptomatology, a process seems to be triggered that will run its course for weeks or months. In its most severe forms, patients may have uncountable motor and vocal tics during all their waking hours with paroxysms of full body movements, shouting or self-mutilation. At times the tics seem organized in orchestrated patterns that are characteristic of that individual. Despite this, many patients with severe tics manage to achieve adequate social adjustment in adult life, although usually with considerable emotional pain. More than the severity of motor and vocal tics, the factors that appear to be of importance with regard to social adaptation include the seriousness of attentional problems, obsessive-compulsive symptoms, the degree of family acceptance and support, intelligence and ego strength. In adolescence and early adulthood, patients with TS frequently come to feel that their social isolation, vocational or academic failure and embarrassing symptoms are more than they can bear. At times, a small number ay consider and attempt suicide. Conversely, some patients with the most bizarre and disruptive symptomatology may achieve excellent social, academic and vocational adjustment. Fortunately, in many cases, tics diminish during the course of adolescence. However, in other cases (<10%), the tic symptoms can become even more severe in adulthood.

Jean, That is GREAT! I am glad the drops are working! I am not sure if you read my other post, but my son now sleeps with the lights off (the first time in years). Did I mention that when my son had fears during strep, it was a fear of the bathroom? His DAN doctor thought it could be molds that he was getting more sensitive too (the longer he was in there the worse it was). Though most of the fear went away when the strep was cleared, there was a little left. Our bathroom wasn't well ventilated so we added a window and after that--no more fears. We then found a dusty mold source in our air filter which fed into all the rooms--but that bathroom got the most direct hit and fixed it. Finally, we got the bathroom and 2 other rooms tested for mold, and the 2 other rooms were fine, but the bathroom tested positive as having mold problems. Our house is mostly new do to renovation, but now we need to replace that old shower. I cringe to think of what is behind those tiles. They have at home mold test kits for $60-70 I think--we got ours from the National Allergy supply catalog. If the drops solve the problem entirely, then you may not need to check this out--this is just a back-up idea for you. I saw your other post too--it sounds like your naturopath is really making a difference, you must be so happy!! I wish you the best with the LCD monitor--I know this last week of my son watching TV and playing computer on the LCD monitor more has made us all feel he is well on his way. I still am afraid of the level of viewing of 'normal' TV that his middle school is supposed to have next year. Please definitely keep us posted on the NAET progress for 'radiation'. I get soooooooooo confused between NAET and NMT! I know it is difficult to know which treatment made a difference when you do both, or whether it is the combination. It sure would be nice if it is effective though. Claire

Hi efgh, COMPUTER Thanks so much for informing me on your 'no computer' for a week. I hope your son was okay with doing it. I hope it makes you feel better that computer DOESN'T impact your son--that is very very good news!! And glad to hear that his tics are so minimal right now. You had been commenting on him having more complex tics a couple of weeks ago, to what do you attribute the recent improvement? Or were the complex tics from an earlier time and I misunderstood your question on them? YEAST As I told Nancy, it would be normal for the stringy things to dissolve into water. I would suggest having you and your husband try it yourselves. Sometimes doing this will show you that not everyone gets stringy things indicating an overgrowth of yeast. (My husband's wasn't stringy) Yeast is still a bit controversial, though less so than 10 years ago. Everyone has yeast, it is normal and healthy. It is just a matter of if there is overgrowth. Even there some doctors think an overgrowth is not a health issue. More and more doctor's believe it can be a health factor these days, but not all. Most people get yeast from antibiotic or steroid use (e.g. steroids in asthma inhalers, or taken for poison oak/ivy). However, from what I read, elevated mercury can depress the immune system and create an environment for yeast to flourish. I believe your son has never been tested for mercury, yes? It doesn't mean that is an issue, but it does mean that you can't rule it out if he wasn't on a lot of antibiotics. My son never took the 'excessive' levels of antibiotics that they claim is needed to create a yeast problem and he still had one. I am not a doctor, but I believe in the DAN protocol (also covered in Children with Starving Brains) in checking on yeast. Our DAN/EM doctor said that capryllic acid and nystatin were both good for intestinal yeast (some people responded better to one or the other) and that he considered nystatin was quite safe. Again, my son's yeast was milder, so he only recommended capryllic acid, but said I would need nystatin since mine was more elevated. If you are hesitant on nystatin, you could ask your doctor. It would be great if they knew about Threelac and had an opinion. Since it is NOT just a matter of taking Nystatin or Capryllic acid, but reducing sugars and refined carbs in their diet. (Unless your child is low in these anyway). I read that Capryllic acid is fine even for a healthy digestive track, but I haven't research Nystatin yet (I will before I take it). Plus typically one must raise the probiotic level--it is not just a matter of killing the yeast, but creating a healthy intestine so it doesn't come back. Finally, I come back to my doctor's comment on the toxins from yeast die-off being a problem if your antioxidants aren't up to par. If you have the funds, maybe you and your naturopath can discuss that $265 spectracell test for vitamin deficiencies and antioxidant levels. It would scare me to supplement with antioxidants unless I knew there was an issue. Clearly I am not a doctor and I am basing all my comments on the protocol our DAN/EM doctor is doing for my son. In some ways our children are similar (reactions to foods, TV sensitivity), but clearly they have differences (my son never had vocal tics, your son can handle computer). But since you asked my opinion, here it is: Yes I would do something for possible yeast, though ideally I would do the $127 Great Plains urine test first. If I couldn't get that test first, then I personally would try capryllic acid over nystatin, since it is non-prescription I trust you to do your own decision making, in conjunction with your doctor. Good luck with your decision process. Claire

Hi Nancy, Congrats on your negative pyrollia test! Re the saliva test...The stringy things are supposed to mean yeast--dissolving into the water is irrelevant as I understand it. It is supposed to be a 'first thing in the morning' spit into a glass of water. As I mentioned in another post, I had it and my son and husband didn't. You might want to try it again some morning--my DAN doctor said it showed fewer false negatives than the stool test commonly used. Again, I am not recommending treatment based on it, just that it might justify the urine test for yeast ($127 from Great Plains, but requires a doctor's signature). As for SpectraCell, the number is 800-227-5227. My doctor ordered the test, but no doctor signature was required on the form, so I am assuming that you can order the test from them directly. The supplement levels they recommend are fairly conservative compared to what I see some people taking. I too would want to speak with a doctor before commencing supplementation--in fact, I was to the other extreme...I didn't want to do any supplementation without testing for deficiencies first! I just mentioned it because you said sometime you might to more testing and this didn't require finding an MD. I assume that you or your naturopath could order the test. No deficiencies doesn't rule out doing further testing at some point. Claire

Hi Nancy, Thanks for the update, I was just wondering about your son the other day. I am glad to hear that he is doing so well! It would make sense to me that being treated while the allergy triggers are present would be the most helpful. Even if this had to be done monthly during allergy season, it would be worth it to me (sort of like retraining your allergy response over time?) If my son is game, I might try to get him to do this to help when we reintroduce foods in a couple of months. Of course, I would try to treat the light sensitivity at the same time. I would also like to do p/n (provocation/neutralization), which the environmental medicine doctors do, but his EM/DAN doctor doesn't do it anymore--he said it takes too much time (I guess compared to food elimination and then rotation). My pyrolia test (and my son's) get mailed to the lab on Monday. FJ on Braintalk kept talking about zinc and b6 supplements for it and my DAN doctor said that I didn't seem to process either well--he had to give me different forms of them (zinc picolate and P5P). So it will be interesting to see if I have that one. I didn't have symptoms for that one, but it was so cheap and easy and I was doing it for my son anyway so I decided what the heck. The guy at the lab said that he guessed (not sure) about 30% of those tested came back positive. Good luck with your own test results! Too bad the Spectracell test is so expensive ($265), since it doesn't require a doctor's approval. The analysis the lab gives back is very detailed, with specific recommendations for supplements for vitamin deficiencies and antioxidants if needed. I even called the lab afterward and they helped me with some questions I had. I raise this, because we did this before the heavy metal test came back, and the treatment was the same--ie my son and I were still to take those same supplements. We just now had a way to measure if it improved underlying issues with metal. Plus our doctor said that the low antioxidants were a tip off to possible metal issues. So it seems like a reasonable screening before going full bore into tests--it is still cheaper than the DAN visits as a starting point. (My 'unexpert' opinion) Did you see the at-home 'free' yeast test with saliva? It can't hurt to try that either. A positive result might encourage you to do more testing, and a negative one might mean no urgency to do so. Good luck Nancy, and thanks again for the update. I know that Doris Rapp saw positive results from the general method. Claire

Thanks Chemar and Heather. I guess I always figured my body could handle that nutrasweet better than sugar, since I felt better without sugar. Somehow I missed that on the board about antioxidants Chemar. I know that everyone said to boost the immune system and to do things slowly to deal with detox, but missed anyone suggesting antioxidants such as selenium, etc... as part of the process for yeast elimination. Other than I think it was Jean and I comparing notes from our doctors on the antioxidant supplements given our children's deficiencies. This really points out to me why I am glad I have a doctor!! There is just too much information to put together a balanced plan, and I would have missed a key aspect of this yeast control for myself, given other complicating factors. Even once I understood that antioxidant helped with heavy metal detox, I had no clue it could be a factor with yeast detox. I only picked up on what killed the yeast, building the immune system, adding probiotics, and avoiding certain foods. Plus Jennifer's comment on charcoal. And I have been reading a lot of books on yeast (4 of them) though I haven't completed any of them. I still would think that this would only be an issue for those with low anti-oxidants though. Not everyone has that problem, though I would suspect that it correlates fairly well with those with high heavy metals. I don't know, I still come back to wanting a doctor to walk me through this, and believe me, I am a very independent thinker! Claire

I keep posting here, because I think the process is relevant--we can compare, whether it is for our kids or an adult. During my visit today, my doctor said that my metals were so high (the ones from the sodder in our water, not the mercury), that it might take 2 years to bring them down. This made me quite upset with our plumber, as when I complained of the horrible taste after he soddered our pipes several months back, he said, 'don't worry, it is not toxic.' Why was I listening to a plumber on such a topic? Because this was before I understood all of this. I need to call him so that he doesn't continue to tell people this. Well, maybe 98% of the people just detox it from their system. My 23% antioxidant level was actually in kind of a 'red' zone (I thought my son's was bad, but the chart but mine in a special category). So my doctor says we can't treat my yeast until we bring up my antioxidant level. He gave an explanation. He said that killing the yeast created toxins, and unless your antioxidant levels are high enough to deal with the toxin, they will just sit in your system. Maybe this is why some have such problems with yeast detox. I said I had already started taking Capryllic acid and occasionally garlic, and he said those were okay, because they were mild and just treated the gastrointestinal track. Phil, if you are reading this, he said that the Great Plains yeast metabolite comment mentions the gastrointenstinal tract, but they can also come from the tissues. He said my yeast was so high that I would need nystatin when I was ready. By the way, it looks like the Spectracell blood test for antioxidant levels and vitamin deficiencies didn't require a doctor's signature. It is $265 though! So I now join my son, but I have more pills. I think I take all that he does except ALA. THREELAC I must give my doctor credit. He didn't know about threelac, and when I showed him the Japanese study, he was impressed and said he wanted to research it more and took all my sheets I had printed out. I told him this was potentially much better for children due to the less restrictive diet--he is so kind to the children. We ran out of time and I couldn't ask him all my questions, e.g. on homeopathic methods. He said I just need to wait and be patient re the yeast. Saliva Test for yeast He said it wasn't perfect for dxing yeast, but that it probably showed more positives than the stool test. Nutrasweet I had a high reading for something supposedly reflecting Nutrasweet consumption. Odd, because I used to eat a ton of it, but stopped completely 6 months ago, with my son. My doctor said I must be still getting it somewhere, but I read every single label!!! Update on my son He now regularly closes the door and sleeps with the room completely black. This is just amazing to me, and I definitely associate it with neurological improvement. Plus he has had computer daily all week on the LCD monitor with no issues. Yippee! Claire

Ann, Did you try Sheila's (site editor) list at the top of the forum? It has doctors by geographic region. http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...p?showtopic=565 Claire

Eric, You are lucky to have come here and found Chemar. I hope that you communicate more with her and really listen to what she has to say. Chemar's son had severe tics/TS with OCD issues, and now he is sooooooooooo much better through the supplement program she put him on to build up his immune system. If you don't have time for a lot of research, then you might try Bonnie's supplements at www.bonniegr.com. As Chemar said, many of the supplements don't mix with medicin, so you might need a doctor's guidance here. Or check out the alternative doctor list at the top of this thread. Most of us either chose not to try meds, or had a bad experience with them--our focus is rebuilding health and the neurological system through natural means. Good luck and God Bless Claire