Herxing?

[justinekno]

deleted.

Edited September 8, 2010 by justinekno

[sf_mom]

We also had flu like symptoms put pulled out of it in 48 hours. We did use motrin and it help tremendously. The mood liability picked up shortly after and then the resurfacing of TICs.... we are day 21/22 and things are now settling down.

Edited September 4, 2010 by SF Mom

[NewBeginnings]

I have found the best thing for a herx is to really focus on detox. Warm epsom salt baths, lemon water, and activated charcoal really seem to help.

 

Different LLMD's will give different opinions on pulling off meds.

[PacificMama]

Not sure if you mean that this abx protocol is new (but he has been on other abx in the past?). There is a good chance this is herxing. But I always tell people to call their doctor and report symptoms, and let them give the opinion (as there are sometimes allergic reactions too... but these usually happen quite quickly).

 

We have always stayed the course through a herx, which is usually what they want you to do. There was an occassion or two where we'd stop the abx for 3 days to see what would happen (per doctor's orders), and then get back on if symptoms backed off (they knew it was herx).

Herxes aren't usually too bad for too long... I would hope you would see some relief next week. There was only one time, when we started Tindamax (a cyst buster), that we had to completely stop for a few months. It just was too tough for my daughter. The cyst busters can be wicked. Anyway, we started back up 3 months later and while she had herxing, it was manageable.

 

Also, herxes can cycle. But they are less painful each time.

 

But please, call you doctor just to keep them in the loop.

[justinekno]

deleted

Edited September 8, 2010 by justinekno

[KeithandElizabeth]

The herxing can feel so scary. My daughter had some very rough times during the first few months of herxing. She responded very physically with sweats at night and teeth chattering and body aches, super enlarged lymph nodes, etc..... The motrin and epsom salt baths seemed to help a little bit.

 

My son's herxing was always with an increase in "PANDAS" symptoms and his OCD and Tics would get worse, etc....

 

If things became unbearable, we would sometimes miss one dose and add tons of detoxing into the regime because herxing is usually a sign of toxins from the die off of the bacteria/parasites.

 

If this is herxing for your son, this is often a sign that he is on the right medications and they are working! As time goes on, the herxing should become less intense and less often.

 

As PacificMama said, I would check in with your doctor just to be safe.

 

Elizabeth

[KeithandElizabeth]

Justine:

 

I just wanted to add this blurb about herxing that I found on the internet. Note the symptoms of fever and muscle pain:

 

"The Jarisch -Herxheimer, or Herxheimer reaction, was named for the German dermatologist, Karl Herxheimer (1844-1947). Dorlands Medical Dictionary refers to the Herxheimer reaction as a transient, short-term, immunological reaction commonly seen following antibiotic treatment of early and later stage [infectious] diseases which [may be] manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgias (muscle pain), and exacerbations of cutaneous lesions. The reaction has been attributed to liberation of endotoxins-like substances or of antigens (a substance which causes an immune reaction) from the killed or dying microorganisms."

[PacificMama]

Hi Justine,

 

I hate for you to go off the abx unless your doctor tells you to, or you really feel it's too much for your son. It unfortunately is just something that has to be gone through. But yes, still call your doctor.

 

My daughter would have some low-grade fever at times. I normally don't treat fever (as it's body's appropriate reaction), but certainly give some motrin or something to make him more comfortable. It can help a lot. (I never give tylenol -- I think it's worthless).

 

NewBeginnings advice re detox is good. My caution is to go mild and short duration for epson bath, until you see your son's reaction. Epson baths tended to draw out my daughters symptoms and made it worse. Perhaps just try an epson foot bath.

Also, good old fashioned movement! This is usually easy for kids. I get my daughter as much exercise as possible (of course what I mean is exercise that would be normal kid stuff). I know it's harder when they don't feel well, but anything is better than nothing.

 

Keep us posted.

Mary

[justinekno]

deleted

Edited September 8, 2010 by justinekno

[justinekno]

This is good. I was looking for something like this but couldn't find it last night. Thank you!

 

[quote name=KeithandElizabeth' date='04 September 2010 - 03:37 AM' timestamp='1283585865'

post='82479]

Justine:

 

I just wanted to add this blurb about herxing that I found on the internet. Note the symptoms of fever and muscle pain:

 

"The Jarisch -Herxheimer, or Herxheimer reaction, was named for the German dermatologist, Karl Herxheimer (1844-1947). Dorlands Medical Dictionary refers to the Herxheimer reaction as a transient, short-term, immunological reaction commonly seen following antibiotic treatment of early and later stage [infectious] diseases which [may be] manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgias (muscle pain), and exacerbations of cutaneous lesions. The reaction has been attributed to liberation of endotoxins-like substances or of antigens (a substance which causes an immune reaction) from the killed or dying microorganisms."

[sf_mom]

I too am on antibiotics, Week 4 and had flu like symptoms two days ago. I couldn't eat, I tried showering, I tried a glass of water, couldn't take the bentonite clay, I was sheet white, could barely get my kids to bed... there is more but I'll spare you the details. Thankfully, within 24 hours I was doing much better and actually had the best day I've had in months. I have a ton of empathy for what our kids are experiencing.

 

My first two weeks, I had joint pain that migrated and then settled in my left knee and just wasn't feeling well. This last week, I had numbness that started in my hands and then migrated from my elbows on down plus the flu like symptoms. Fairly consistently, I have overwhelming fatigue in the late afternoon. I've also been a lot more emotional/moody... frustration that comes out of no where.

 

Even our LLMD discussed his fears around Herxing when he first started treating for LD and he was typically making decisions around someone going to the hospital or not.

 

It is scary! For our younger daughter who is 3.... has the highest CaM kinase, most compromised immune system, most physical symptoms we are seeing our LLMD every two weeks to get a perspective on her Herxing response/confidence in the treatment protocol. We are on day three of new antibiotics for our daughter and day two for her twin brother. So far, just bright green poop within 24 hours and slight increase in mood for DD. Night waking, bad dreams for our DS. I expect things to get worse.... It really took two weeks for things to ramp up for our older son but definitely settling down now.

 

Wishing you all the best and hopefully your Dr. can give you some perspective.

Edited September 4, 2010 by SF Mom

[lyme_mom]

I too am on antibiotics, Week 4 and had flu like symptoms two days ago. I couldn't eat, I tried showering, I tried a glass of water, couldn't take the bentonite clay, I was sheet white, could barely get my kids to bed... there is more but I'll spare you the details. Thankfully, within 24 hours I was doing much better and actually had the best day I've had in months. I have a ton of empathy for what our kids are experiencing.

 

My first two weeks, I had joint pain that migrated and then settled in my left knee and just wasn't feeling well. This last week, I had numbness that started in my hands and then migrated from my elbows on down plus the flu like symptoms. Fairly consistently, I have overwhelming fatigue in the late afternoon. I've also been a lot more emotional/moody... frustration that comes out of no where.

 

Even our LLMD discussed his fears around Herxing when he first started treating for LD and he was typically making decisions around someone going to the hospital or not.

 

It is scary! For our younger daughter who is 3.... has the highest CaM kinase, most compromised immune system, most physical symptoms we are seeing our LLMD every two weeks to get a perspective on her Herxing response/confidence in the treatment protocol. We are on day three of new antibiotics for our daughter and day two for her twin brother. So far, just bright green poop within 24 hours and slight increase in mood for DD. Night waking, bad dreams for our DS. I expect things to get worse.... It really took two weeks for things to ramp up for our older son but definitely settling down now.

 

Wishing you all the best and hopefully your Dr. can give you some perspective.

That is the worst-when you are very sick with lyme and you also have to heal your kids who are sick with lyme. When I was really sick with lyme I felt like I was 100 years old. I had no energy. I would try and take two stairs at a time going to the second floor and I felt weak and sick. I took frequent naps to get through the day (after I dropped my kids at school and late in the afternoon I'd take a quick nap to make it through til I got them to bed.) Before i knew I had lyme I would get tired in the late afternoon and now I think it was babesia or lyme. What really helped me was the treatment for babesia with mepron. Initially it made me feel so awful that I had to stop it after 5 days and try it again a week later. It was a herx that made me feel like I was dying. My blood pressure at one point was 90 over 60 I think. They could barely find a pulse. Then I got a Myers cocktail IV (which I highly recommend to you guys) and it breathed life back into me within hours. I got a myers cocktail twice a week for almost two months and this is very helpful with detoxing and it boosts your energy, immune system, mood etc with the b vitamins. (It also made my nails grow beautifully :-). The hardest thing about being sick with lyme is that you don't look sick and it is hard for those who have not been through it to appreciate how awful you feel. Hang in there! I never thought I'd being doing this again but I am running three miles on the treadmill everyday and I feel great. Once you feel well again you will realize how long it has been since you have felt great. For me after 9 months of treatment I felt ten years younger. Oh and you will lose weight too if you have gained it. This is very common. I dropped 15 pounds without trying and I have met many others who had the same experience.

[sf_mom]

Lyme Mom, I am positive I'll have more questions as we move forward through treatment. Exercise is a REAL strain and I would love to have my stamina back. AND, lose the extra weight that my body has been holding onto since my last pregnancy (no matter what I do). Our nutritionist has basically said the same thing..... the toxin's from bacteria get pushed into fat cells and retained when the body can't process it all. Once the body is healthy the weight normalizes.

 

I'm going to go look up the Myers cocktail right now.

 

-Wendy

Edited September 5, 2010 by SF Mom

[justinekno]

Wahoo - finally some good news!!

 

Oh and you will lose weight too if you have gained it. This is very common. I dropped 15 pounds without trying and I have met many others who had the same experience.

[lyme_mom]

Lyme Mom, I am positive I'll have more questions as we move forward through treatment. Exercise is a REAL strain and I would love to have my stamina back. AND, lose the extra weight that my body has been holding onto since my last pregnancy (no matter what I do). Our nutritionist has basically said the same thing..... the toxin's from bacteria get pushed into fat cells and retained when the body can't process it all. Once the body is healthy the weight normalizes.

 

I'm going to go look up the Myers cocktail right now.

 

-Wendy

It would make a great headline for a lyme awareness campaign..."Did you know that you could have an infection that is making fat?" People would flock to be tested :-)! The Myers Cocktail is used by integrative physicians-its also referred to as iv vitamins and minerals. It was invented by a doctor in Maryland. It contains lots of b, vitamin c, magnesium and zinc (i think). The other advice I would give all the moms dealing with sick kids is to take care of yourself. The stress and worry can make you sick. I didn't realize how much worry I was carrying around for the first year of my son's illness. It was like I was holding my breath, doing everything I could to get him well. I'd wake up every morning thinking about what I needed to do to get him well (diet wise, doctor wise, etc.) I did research all the time. At the time I didn't realize how much stress it was. Reiki, meditation, anything that can relax you is worth doing especially if you are also sick.