Does this seem like a tic?

[tantrums]

A couple of weeks ago, actually on the way to see Dr. T, my son started saying "mommy I want a pony". He said this over and over despite my answering him (obvously NO LOL) for several minutes. He also says it in an odd voice, sortof a "valley girl" type sound. He did it again briefly on the way home, but I think only said it two or three times.

 

He did this again this past weekend in the car. However, he is adding lines. "mommy I want a pony" "can we get a pony" "I want to get a pony". Again, I answered once and then didn't respond any more. I also didn't address it since if it is a tic, I don't want to make him self conscious. But trying to remember that he is a 7 year old boy and any 7 year old boy does odd things

 

His tics just seem to be getting odder and odder to me (if this is also one). But overall, they aren't that constant. Prior to DX, he had very "classic" tics which went away with the initial course of amox.

[Phasmid]

I used to consider these things tics. I now believe this to be ocd. My son repeated words and phrases. However, I don't know if I would consider the frequency of what your son is doing necessarily worrisome. I guess you just have to watch and wait. My son, when he was doing this, would repeat the phrase every few seconds. It went on, until he found a new phrase to repeat then that one took over.

[tantrums]

Thanks. That makes sense. No, I'm not overly worried about it. Just feeling badly that I missed so many things that WERE tics in the past (sucking his shirt, licking his lips)

[P_Mom]

Yeah...shirt sucking, lip licking, repeating phrases....my son did them all, plus many more things.....all PANDAS related.....anxiety, tics, ocd, sensory related...

[Phasmid]

Yup. I missed it all too, except for the really obvious things. Shirt sucking was actually one of the first. My son had lip licking too, when he was doing nothing else. So I disregarded THAT one as well! His lips would be one big rash. Hopefully this is just a passing thing, but if it keeps up for days, then I guess I would add that to the ocd list. I am hoping it goes away!

[forjpj]

Yeah, my son does this. He repeats a lot, and wants me to respond in a certain way.

[tantrums]

I hope so too! When trapped in the car listening to it, I'm ready to just drive to a stable and buy a pony if it will make it stop!

 

I know it could surely be worse. It's just been bugging me trying to figure it out - what it is.

 

Should I answer him or totally ignore it?

[Phasmid]

I sometimes try reversal training. When my son does this he is out of his mind and i can't really talk to him, but in some cases I think it works. Real ocd can't really be stopped no way, no how. Here is an example of what I have done:

 

Mom, I need to get this sword for my kung foo class. (He only started two days ago).

(i ignore it)

Mom, I need to get it. Can we go get it now? (they don't get weapons until purple belt... years away!)

(not today)

You always say no. You don't even know why I need it. Can we just go get it? It's only $200.00 ( )

 

Then.. I launch into my series of questions meant to get him "off the track":

 

What type of a sword is it (will it work on some doctors? )

Who uses it? How is it used? (He becomes irritated at this point and starts in at me)

(I continue with helping him visualize what he would do with it in the class)

What color handle does it have? Do you know anyone who has one? Is it something you can legally take out in public?

 

This goes on for twenty minutes and he feels some sense of satisfaction, if in his mind he can feel like he has one and can visualize himself using it. I try to keep it going until he is the one who ends the discussion. Kind of like dog whisperer! If he is the one to walk away, then it is easier to put it to rest.

 

(FYI: I have no intention of ever giving a kid with PANDAS a sword!)

 

So with something like a pony, you could ask questions about how he would take care of it, feed it, keep it, how long it takes to brush, walk it, ride it, clean up poo in stall, etc.

[norcalmom]

I've never realized this is (could be) ocd. NOW I get it. My son does this all the time. Esspecailly about wanting stuff. He will try to get me to commit to stuff, even if it is a year in the future. Stuff he knows he will never get. He harasses me over, and over. We call it badgering. When he starts I give him a bit to see how far he will take it, "I've answered you ten differnt ways, now you are badgering me. Let if go or I will have to stop playing and go inside" (becasue - I can't stand it anymore and I'm going to loooose it!) I don't say that part...ok.... sometimes I do.

 

I've just considered him an excellent and persistent negotiator. But it goes way beyond that - I can see now how it relates to ocd. Soemtimes he can't let other things go either - if he feels wronged in some way, like somethings unfair - he has a very difficult time moving on - he obsesses over it.

 

I think it falls into the category of being inflexible. He's stuck on something - like classic ocd - only he's stuck on something he wants, or somehting that happened that he didn't want. Control-issue ocd. He doesn't repeat the EXACT same thing over and over (he will approach it from every angle he can think of), but he is stuck none the same.

 

He has another weird one that we didn't know was ocd either - he can't stand to hear or see me or his father swallow anything. He is very controlling about it. Basicaly, we aren't allowed to swallow in his presence, or he losses it and will rant and rave for 5-15 minutes. This was his first big symptom in hindsight. We jus thought he was starting to be a preteen pain int he you know what at dinner time - he and sister would get comptitive about who had best table manners "don't talk with your mouthfull - you are soooo disgusting" thats how it started. Then when other symtoms started we thought he was jsut sensitive to noises, maybe sensory intergration disorder, because he was a bit more sensitive to everything(extremely irritible) - but the swallowing thing took on a life of its own.

[tantrums]

Oh My Goodness!! And once again, I think I hadn't thought about something else he does that is totally related. Although, really, I think any 7 year old could do this as well - just with less intensity.

 

Mom - when can I get a dog? When I'm 7? When I'm 8? When I am in second grade? Why can't you EVER let me get a dog???? Happens several times a week and escalates to meltdown just about every time.

 

In that case though, I also think it's a sense of not understanding time. Our dog is 13 (I posted months ago about him hitting the dog too) and lately cannot handle other dogs. DH and I had discussed when would be a better time to get another. I think emotionally, it would be best for the people in the house to do it now. But don't think present dog would agree So, he knew it had been discussed.

 

He also wants a YOUNG dog so he doesn't have to think about it dying. He wants a small dog of his own - he knows I want a great dane and that intimidates him. So a lot of the OCD thoughts are involved in this one. Mainly, I think it centers around his obsession with death and dying and the fact that our dog in his mind is going to die any day

 

And yes, also the inflexibility. He wants it NOW and when he enters into this questioning, the answer would never make him stop. I cringe now as soon as he asks bc I know the rest of the day will be a disaster.

[tantrums]

I should add here though - the pony thing is way different! The way he is saying it - I can tell he isn't REALLY asking me for a pony. It's just a repetition. Almost like an echolalia.

[Phasmid]

I think we talked about the chewing stuff before. My son had a brief period of intolerance to hearing me chew. Comes and goes now. But when it's there, he will express much disgust and is pretty harsh about it.

[kimballot]

What you are describing could be "perseveration".... just another symptom seen with OCD and tourette (so likely with PANDAS as well), though I've not seen the term used on the forum.

 

It is also frequently seen in kids who have had traumatic brain injuries and may be permanent in some kids with TBI.

(not that I am saying our kids have TBI - just a little background info)

 

I would chalk it up to another PANDAS symptom and treat it as such.

 

Here is some info. on perseveration: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-perseveration.htm

Edited June 21, 2010 by kimballot

[bgbarnes]

Yup. I missed it all too, except for the really obvious things. Shirt sucking was actually one of the first. My son had lip licking too, when he was doing nothing else. So I disregarded THAT one as well! His lips would be one big rash. Hopefully this is just a passing thing, but if it keeps up for days, then I guess I would add that to the ocd list. I am hoping it goes away!

We had the lip licking things a couple of times too.... Play therapist wrote it ff as a nervous tic- and of course it went away... If we only knew!!

[smartyjones]

He did this again this past weekend in the car. However, he is adding lines. "mommy I want a pony" "can we get a pony" "I want to get a pony". Again, I answered once and then didn't respond any more. I also didn't address it since if it is a tic, I don't want to make him self conscious. But trying to remember that he is a 7 year old boy and any 7 year old boy does odd things

 

 

i know i'm soon to get kicked off this forum with my own obsession with the explosive child. i don't know where this falls with ERP techniques of reptitive questions so it may not be good advice. my son did this when in exacerbation. i didn't use this then but would if i had to now. did you try repeating back to him what he's said rather than engaging in a conversation about it? like "you want a pony?". "you want us to get a pony?". "you need a pony?" "a pony!" with an incredulous tone.

 

what i like about this technique is that it keeps me involved with him b/c he will get upset if i ignore him or try to disengage in some other manner. however, i'm not really engaging with him. for my son, it tends to throw it back on him and then he's able to unhook his mind and he can see what he's saying is not really reasonable. if i try to tell him how his mind is unreasonable it seems to only further entrench him.