Sewer Breath

[tarabeara]

My nearly 3yo son is somewhere high on the autistic spectrum. He has a history of sleep disorders, difficult behavior, tantrums, head banging and back arching as an infant, extremely picky eating, etc. His breath has been smelling like a sewer system. I don't know what to do.

 

I'm thinking of trying probiotics to see whether that alone will take care of the problem, since it could be candida. Could it be due to another issue, though? A food allergy or intolerance? I think he must have a problem with milk protein, because he craves dairy all the time. I finally bought some rice cheese and coconut milk yogurt (both dairy-free) to at least reduce his dairy intake. I have him drinking hemp milk or sometimes almond milk again, which I used to do before, until recently when I've started giving him cow's milk (maybe five months or so). Could this recent change to cow's milk be causing it? I read online that lactose intolerance can cause foul breath, but I'm not sure whether that's his issue or not. Can an inability to properly break down the protein cause bad breath?

 

His stools have always been strange, probably in part b/c he eats strangely. He doesn't eat enough variety, and vegetables are nearly zero in his diet. He eats only a little meat sometimes; for the most part, he hates it. Fruits, grains, and dairy make up most of his diet. We eat 100% organic, though, and hemp milk and water and sometimes sweet tea are his only drinks. Occasionally fruit juice, and that's often freshly juiced.

 

He asks for cheese, though, first thing in the morning. And then he asks all day for it. I started giving him the rice cheese yesterday. The problem is, I don't think I can completely cut out the dairy in his diet, unless I completely cut it out for the rest of us. Does reducing things like this benefit at all, does anyone know? And what are the chances the sewer breath is related in some way to dairy?

 

Oh! There is another thing. I took him once to a naturopathic doctor to check out his tonsils. He has sleep issues, as I mentioned, including suspected apnea. She said that they are enlarged, but she said we should wait to see whether he outgrows it, that he'll likely be fine. I avoid surgery and allopathic drugs as much as I can. Those types of things are considered very last resort for us. But, could this issue be related to tonsils? I read that "tonsil stones" cause bad breath. I'm not an expert on tonsil stones, so I'm hoping someone can help me out with this. His breath smells gut-originated.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited April 7, 2010 by tarabeara

[peglem]

I once had a kinder student- I kept smelling dukee in the classroom and checking to see if someone had an accident, or maybe didn't wipe so well after using the toilet. Turned out it was this kid's breath! After his tonsils and adenoids were removed, his behavior (really hyper and impulsive) drastically improved, as did his sleep problems.

 

I understand the desire to avoid surgery and medication...but you could very well turn things completely around w/ a tonillectomy and some antibiotics. You might want to consult an ENT, just to get an opinion-then make a decision. I think all your son's issues could be related to infection.

 

I have a severely autistic 15 yo daughter. We recently discovered that her autism was most likely caused by a strep triggered autoimmune disorder, called PANDAS.

Edited April 9, 2010 by peglem

[tarabeara]

I once had a kinder student- I kept smelling dukee in the classroom and checking to see if someone had an accident, or maybe didn't wipe so well after using the toilet. Turned out it was this kid's breath! After his tonsils and adenoids were removed, his behavior (really hyper and impulsive) drastically improved, as did his sleep problems.

 

I understand the desire to avoid surgery and medication...but you could very well turn things completely around w/ a tonillectomy and some antibiotics. You might want to consult an ENT, just to get an opinion-then make a decision. I think all your son's issues could be related to infection.

 

I have a severely autistic 15 yo daughter. We recently discovered that her autism was most likely caused by a strep triggered autoimmune disorder, called PANDAS.

 

Thank you so much for your input! After what you said, I do believe I'd like to go get another opinion. I'll go see an ENT doctor.

[Johnsmom]

Tarabeara-

 

Please go out and buy the book: Unraveling the mystery of Autism and Pervasive Delopmental Disorder by Karen Serrousi.

I would IMMEDIATELY remove all dairy from your childs diet. This sounds like a definite addiction. The book will explain it. You should also read the Jenny McCarthy book "Louder Than Words" as well.

Most kids on the spectrum have wheat and dairy intolerances. I would advise you to get allergy testing done. We chose to just remove dairy and gluten. We did gluten first and then when we removed dairy he began to sleep through the night!! That was three yrs ago and I have had only minor restless nights since. When he gets a dairy infraction - LOOK OUT! Dairy meltdown city with rage and tantrums.

The sewer breath sounds like definite yeast overgrowth that is most likely caused by the reaction to the dairy intolerance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unraveling-Mystery-P...r/dp/0684831643

 

Please read Karens book as soon as possible.

 

johnsmom

 

 

 

 

 

My nearly 3yo son is somewhere high on the autistic spectrum. He has a history of sleep disorders, difficult behavior, tantrums, head banging and back arching as an infant, extremely picky eating, etc. His breath has been smelling like a sewer system. I don't know what to do.

 

I'm thinking of trying probiotics to see whether that alone will take care of the problem, since it could be candida. Could it be due to another issue, though? A food allergy or intolerance? I think he must have a problem with milk protein, because he craves dairy all the time. I finally bought some rice cheese and coconut milk yogurt (both dairy-free) to at least reduce his dairy intake. I have him drinking hemp milk or sometimes almond milk again, which I used to do before, until recently when I've started giving him cow's milk (maybe five months or so). Could this recent change to cow's milk be causing it? I read online that lactose intolerance can cause foul breath, but I'm not sure whether that's his issue or not. Can an inability to properly break down the protein cause bad breath?

 

His stools have always been strange, probably in part b/c he eats strangely. He doesn't eat enough variety, and vegetables are nearly zero in his diet. He eats only a little meat sometimes; for the most part, he hates it. Fruits, grains, and dairy make up most of his diet. We eat 100% organic, though, and hemp milk and water and sometimes sweet tea are his only drinks. Occasionally fruit juice, and that's often freshly juiced.

 

He asks for cheese, though, first thing in the morning. And then he asks all day for it. I started giving him the rice cheese yesterday. The problem is, I don't think I can completely cut out the dairy in his diet, unless I completely cut it out for the rest of us. Does reducing things like this benefit at all, does anyone know? And what are the chances the sewer breath is related in some way to dairy?

 

Oh! There is another thing. I took him once to a naturopathic doctor to check out his tonsils. He has sleep issues, as I mentioned, including suspected apnea. She said that they are enlarged, but she said we should wait to see whether he outgrows it, that he'll likely be fine. I avoid surgery and allopathic drugs as much as I can. Those types of things are considered very last resort for us. But, could this issue be related to tonsils? I read that "tonsil stones" cause bad breath. I'm not an expert on tonsil stones, so I'm hoping someone can help me out with this. His breath smells gut-originated.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[tarabeara]

Tarabeara-

 

Please go out and buy the book: Unraveling the mystery of Autism and Pervasive Delopmental Disorder by Karen Serrousi.

I would IMMEDIATELY remove all dairy from your childs diet. This sounds like a definite addiction. The book will explain it. You should also read the Jenny McCarthy book "Louder Than Words" as well.

Most kids on the spectrum have wheat and dairy intolerances. I would advise you to get allergy testing done. We chose to just remove dairy and gluten. We did gluten first and then when we removed dairy he began to sleep through the night!! That was three yrs ago and I have had only minor restless nights since. When he gets a dairy infraction - LOOK OUT! Dairy meltdown city with rage and tantrums.

The sewer breath sounds like definite yeast overgrowth that is most likely caused by the reaction to the dairy intolerance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unraveling-Mystery-P...r/dp/0684831643

 

Please read Karens book as soon as possible.

 

johnsmom

 

Thanks. I know about the milk and gluten issues to an extent. I wrote some about it in my book. I was also thinking that I saved something on tonsil enlargement, and I think I remember that removing dairy was a suggestion to help them shrink on their own, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look. I'm not sure my children have wheat intolerances, but I definitely think my child in question must have one to dairy. I'll put these books on my to-read list. Thank you so much for your input.

[Low Budget Dave]

Foul breath and unusually foul BM are almost always a sign of excess yeast and/or e-coli in the gut. Yeast can be very hard to treat, and can require a long commitment to diet change. Excess e-coli is a little easier, but just as important. You might want to talk to a doctor (or even a DAN doctor) about each, since they are such complex problems. Remember that when you first start treating the yeast, the symptoms might get worse for a while, because as the yeast dies, it releases toxins. Yeast in the gut causes an array of symptoms, and some are worse than you might expect. If you are reading around, you might want to try the first two chapters of "Children with Starving Brains" by Jacqualyn McCandless. She talks in great length about yeast infections. I think there is an interview with her on the main page of this website.

[tarabeara]

Foul breath and unusually foul BM are almost always a sign of excess yeast and/or e-coli in the gut. Yeast can be very hard to treat, and can require a long commitment to diet change. Excess e-coli is a little easier, but just as important. You might want to talk to a doctor (or even a DAN doctor) about each, since they are such complex problems. Remember that when you first start treating the yeast, the symptoms might get worse for a while, because as the yeast dies, it releases toxins. Yeast in the gut causes an array of symptoms, and some are worse than you might expect. If you are reading around, you might want to try the first two chapters of "Children with Starving Brains" by Jacqualyn McCandless. She talks in great length about yeast infections. I think there is an interview with her on the main page of this website.

 

Thanks. Yes, I've had a systemic candida problem myself. What has worked well for me is a product called Threelac, but it has casein and lactose in it, so I realize in order to cut out the dairy for my son, I can't give him that. I do give him yogurt, though. I am now buying dairy- and soy-free coconut-milk-based yogurt, and it has live cultures, too. I may try to get some grapefruit seed extract into him somehow, maybe some other things like garlic. He actually likes garlic, oddly.

 

What is a DAN doctor? Is the 'N' for naturopathic?

 

I found my file with my notes on shrinking tonsils:

 

Natural remedies to shrink enlarged adenoids and tonsils:-

 

1. Give 1 tsp honey with a pinch of black pepper and 5 drops of lemon juice 2 times daily for 2 days.

 

2. Give a homeopathic remedy called as Baryta carb 30 5 pills 2 times for 2 days then wait and watch for 15 days.

 

 

---------------

 

When dealing with enlarged tonsils, then, the key question you need to ask is whether the problem is intrinsic or extrinsic. Are you actually dealing with very large tonsils, or are the tonsils merely continuously enlarged because of immune and lymph problems? If the latter, removing the tonsils and adenoids won't get rid of the problem -- it merely removes one location the symptoms manifest. You might want to see what happens short term if you try and boost the immune system. Do the tonsils shrink at all? If so, then you know that the problem is changeable. If improving immunity has no effect on the tonsil size, then they may indeed be abnormally large and need to come out. If the size of the tonsils changes from day to day, that means you most likely have an immune system problem. If so, the key focus for tonsil and adenoid health is improving immunity by following some general guidelines:

 

* Removing dairy from the diet has also been shown to shrink enlarged tonsils and adenoids, indicating relief for the immune system by reducing Circulating Immune Complexes.

* Using digestive enzymes with meals to help break down proteins that contribute to Circulating Immune Complexes can also be helpful.

* You might want to see what happens short term if you use immune boosters and pathogen destroyers.

* And finally, if you’re old enough, you can work on cleaning out and optimizing your lymph system.

 

I've cut out the dairy. I need to get some lemons, and then I'll try that remedy. The lemon juice will be good for alkalizing his body, anyway. I'm going to wait a bit to see whether I can fix this myself before seeing an ENT dr. If nothing else works, I feel that will have to happen.

[peglem]

tarabeara, How is your son doing? I've been dealing w/ my daughter's infection triggered autoimmunity and have been worried about your little guy!

[tarabeara]

tarabeara, How is your son doing? I've been dealing w/ my daughter's infection triggered autoimmunity and have been worried about your little guy!

 

Thanks for asking. He's been going w/o dairy, and I'm thinking it must really be helping with his sleep, b/c just three or four days after the change he started waking up even earlier in the morning, before his brother, whereas they'd get up about the same time before. I'm guessing it must be b/c he's sleeping better through the night; I hope, anyway. His breath is still bad, but I think it may be getting better. I have looked for tonsil stones, and I thought I saw just one on his left side the other day, but it's hard to see back there, b/c he won't cooperate well with his tongue. I later got some wet cotton swabs to wipe back there, as I read people have sometimes been successful in removing them that way. Well, I couldn't ever get him to cooperate well enough that time around to even see. I did rub them around in the right area. I've since seen back there better, but I don't see anything. Either there is nothing there and possibly never was, or I did remove that one, but he would have swallowed it, if that's the case. Anyway, I'm adding dairy-free digestive enyzmes and probiotics to his coconut-milk-based yogurt.

 

It seems his hyperactivity and behavior has improved a bit, but it's not a big enough change for me to be sure. I have to give it more time.

 

Oh! He definitely stopped asking for dairy all day, every day. That must be a good sign.

 

How is your daughter?

[Johnsmom]

From reading the other posts sounds like your guy is doing better with the sleeping.

FYI

I read once that if you have a picky eater that it may be caused by a zinc deficiency. They said to give liquid zinc, which if you take when you have a zinc deficiency is tasteless. Once the zinc deficiency dissappears then the the zinc starts to taste like metal and thats when the kids spits it out and says YUCK! I cannot remember where I read this. Also found a great dairy, gluten and soy free cheese new to the market called Daiya. I can make pizza, mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, etc.. www.daiyafoods.com

I hope things keep progressing for your son

johnsmom

 

 

Tarabeara-

 

Please go out and buy the book: Unraveling the mystery of Autism and Pervasive Delopmental Disorder by Karen Serrousi.

I would IMMEDIATELY remove all dairy from your childs diet. This sounds like a definite addiction. The book will explain it. You should also read the Jenny McCarthy book "Louder Than Words" as well.

Most kids on the spectrum have wheat and dairy intolerances. I would advise you to get allergy testing done. We chose to just remove dairy and gluten. We did gluten first and then when we removed dairy he began to sleep through the night!! That was three yrs ago and I have had only minor restless nights since. When he gets a dairy infraction - LOOK OUT! Dairy meltdown city with rage and tantrums.

The sewer breath sounds like definite yeast overgrowth that is most likely caused by the reaction to the dairy intolerance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unraveling-Mystery-P...r/dp/0684831643

 

Please read Karens book as soon as possible.

 

johnsmom

 

Thanks. I know about the milk and gluten issues to an extent. I wrote some about it in my book. I was also thinking that I saved something on tonsil enlargement, and I think I remember that removing dairy was a suggestion to help them shrink on their own, but I'm not sure. I'll have to look. I'm not sure my children have wheat intolerances, but I definitely think my child in question must have one to dairy. I'll put these books on my to-read list. Thank you so much for your input.

[tarabeara]

From reading the other posts sounds like your guy is doing better with the sleeping.

FYI

I read once that if you have a picky eater that it may be caused by a zinc deficiency. They said to give liquid zinc, which if you take when you have a zinc deficiency is tasteless. Once the zinc deficiency dissappears then the the zinc starts to taste like metal and thats when the kids spits it out and says YUCK! I cannot remember where I read this. Also found a great dairy, gluten and soy free cheese new to the market called Daiya. I can make pizza, mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, etc.. www.daiyafoods.com

I hope things keep progressing for your son

johnsmom

 

Thank you! That's very interesting about the zinc. I'm going to the natural food store today to get some cal-mag-zinc supplements for myself, so I'll see whether I can find some of this. Thanks for the Daiya link, too. God bless you.

[tarabeara]

He definitely is casein intolerant, to make a long story short. I cut out wheat and gluten for a week. I did it for him, my older son, and myself (plus I'm nursing my daughter), and I don't think any of us have a problem with gluten. The times my son has had something accidentally with casein in it, even the smallest amount, he has had the sewer breath return and has had terrible tantrums. It takes 2.5 to 3 days for it to all go away.

 

Although things are much better without the casein (and btw, I give him Daiya cheese now, thanks again!), he still is so negative about everything, shouts obscenities, shouts "I hate you," when he gets in trouble for something, and he's violent and disrespectful to us all. :-( He's just three years old. He tells his nearly-seven-year-old brother that he is going to kill him when he gets angry at him. We don't watch tv in our home, but we do watch movies, but I keep a highly moral home, and he's exposed to very little violence. I do not have him in a preschool or anything like that (I actually home school). So, this is upsetting to me. What else can I do? I have him back on a multivitamin, specifically Mercola's vitamins for kids (I'm against any iron-containing vitamin). I give him extra vitamin C. I'm thinking of finding a high-magnesium kids vitamin. I'd bought Bonnie's TS+ vitamins for my older son some time ago, but neither of them can swallow vitamins, and there's no way to mix that much into something where it's agreeable.

 

Drugs are a LAST resort, especially manufactured ones. I'd use homeopathic things or the illegal herb before manufactured pharma drugs. So, is there ANYTHING else I can try to TAME him? I've used something before called Valerian Super Calm, but it seemed to have no effect. I haven't used it in awhile, though, so I'm going to try it again. I'm also going to do a metal detox, though he has not been exposed to any, except from my own body during pregnancy and nursing. I detoxed my older son, but I've not tried it on him, except for one or two clay baths well over a year ago. In the meantime, though, I'd love to have other suggestions, in case none of this works to help.

Edited June 16, 2010 by tarabeara

[peglem]

Please get your son tested for strep, even if he does not have symptoms. For many, many children strep triggers an autoimmune disorder that can present as autism and behavioral symptoms- and many of those children do not have typical step symptoms. I don't know why you are so opposed to all manufactured medications, but if your child is suffering you need to find out why and find a way to treat him.

Edited June 18, 2010 by peglem

[tarabeara]

Please get your son tested for strep, even if he does not have symptoms. For many, many children strep triggers an autoimmune disorder that can present as autism and behavioral symptoms- and many of those children do not have typical step symptoms. I don't know why you are so opposed to all manufactured medications, but if your child is suffering you need to find out why and find a way to treat him.

 

It's genetic in his case. Both my husband and I have various TS symptoms, etc. My firstborn has mild stuttering and has had other mild tics, but he does pretty well if I just give him nutritional supplements in addition to his good diet. They are all high-functioning. I actually use these forums, because I like to do all I can to avoid synthetic prescription medications. We only use them for extreme circumstances. The Latitudes homepage says:

 

Latitudes.org is a leading source of free information that can help you reduce or avoid the need for prescription medications for these increasingly common problems. You can learn how to have a healthier brain and nervous system—naturally.

 

So, that's why I'm here. Not everyone loves conventional medicine for everything. I do appreciate your suggestions, though. I just do not like to do anything unnecessary or something that may be more harmful than helpful. Cutting out the dairy with him helped a lot. I've taken steps to work out these other issues, and he's not been that bad.

[meeeee]

Hi there,

 

I have dairy intolerances and had tried rice and soy cheeses and for some reason didn't stop getting black eyes and headaches. then i found out that casein is put into rice and soy cheeses, and whey is put into all sorts of cookies and drinks and margarines. I would make sure that the ones you have bought for him do not include these ingredients for they are the milk proteins that are what cause the reactions.

 

 

I recently have been starting to look into the differences with dairy that is pasteurized and non. because when i was in france i was able to eat some cheeses and not have reactions. so whether it was the adrenaline from traveling that kept my reaction down or whether the non-pasteurized'ness is better? who knows- and if someone does- please let me know!