IVIG

[smartyjones]

i understand that ivig is injecting 'proper' antibodies into the system. and it makes sense to me that it could be helpful.

 

where i get confused is that it makes sense to me that you'd have to always do it at some interval to keep constant the levels of the 'proper' antibodies to keep the immune system functioning correctly.

 

how does injecting good antibodies 'retrain' the immune system? is that based on anecdotal evidence that people have had it done and seen long-lasting results?

 

is it that the whole pandas antibody reaction is like gunk in the system and the IVIG cleans out the gunk? so all would be fine until and unless the gunk came back? and then are you back at square one with the same antibody reaction that you need to clean out again?

 

does IVIG have anything to do with reducing swelling in the basal ganglia? does it have any effect on closing the BBB?

[peglem]

And another question-

If the donor immunoglobulin creates antibodies do those "recipes" get stored in the recipients body? For instance, if the donor cells make antibodies to recipient auto-antibodies, does a copy get saved so the next time that auto-antibody is detected the recipient can then manufacture its own response?

[peglem]

Bumping this- in case it just got lost.

[Buster]

Hi Smarty Jones, let me try to answer the questions you pose.

 

where i get confused is that it makes sense to me that you'd have to always do it at some interval to keep constant the levels of the 'proper' antibodies to keep the immune system functioning correctly.

 

There's not a "proper amount" of antibodies. You basically get a boatload of them. If they aren't used/find anything to bind to, they just keep circulating until they turnover. The halflife of antibodies vary but generally is between 36-45 days. The B cells are still around to make more if need be.

 

how does injecting good antibodies 'retrain' the immune system?

It's not known that it actually "retrains" the immune system -- rather it seems to overwhelm the immune system and potentially reactivates T-regulatory cells. The T-regulatory cells suppress the activation of T-cells that would target host cells (at least that is one theory). Another theory is that the antibodies introduced actually find the offending bacteria and mark it for deletion. Once the bacteria (or cell containing the bacteria) is destroyed then there is no longer a trigger for the B-cell that is incorrectly creating antibodies. Finally, a 3rd theory holds that IVIG is very anti-inflammatory (not sure why) and this anti-inflammatory property closes the Blood-brain barrier breaking the cycle of PANDAS.

 

is that based on anecdotal evidence that people have had it done and seen long-lasting results?

We can attest that it has worked for our daughter on her contamination, OCD and movement disorders. Swedo's studies (see research in essential threads) also has 50 documented cases where the single dose of IVIG/PEX with prophylaxis was sufficient to have sustained results for > 1 year.

 

is it that the whole pandas antibody reaction is like gunk in the system and the IVIG cleans out the gunk?

Nope, it's more that you've got a misfire of a response to an antigen, a failure of regulation of the antibody, and a breach of the blood brain barrier. IVIG helps close the blood-brain barrier, seems to cause regulation of the antibody, and seems to remove the original triggering antigen that the body was having trouble finding/marking.

 

so all would be fine until and unless the gunk came back? and then are you back at square one with the same antibody reaction that you need to clean out again?

We think so -- although it is possible that the closure of the BBB and the T-reg cells might be enough that simple exposure doesn't cause the significant adverse reaction.

does IVIG have anything to do with reducing swelling in the basal ganglia? does it have any effect on closing the BBB?

Possible on shrinking the basal ganglia -- but current research is that the basal ganglia isn't "swelled" but rather the antibody interferes with cell signalling. THere have been mixed reports about inflammed basal ganglia. In terms of closing the BBB -- yup, that seems to certainly be the case as IVIG is anti-inflammatory and reduced ICAM-1 on the endothelial cells at the BBB.

 

Buster

[Buster]

And another question-

If the donor immunoglobulin creates antibodies do those "recipes" get stored in the recipients body? For instance, if the donor cells make antibodies to recipient auto-antibodies, does a copy get saved so the next time that auto-antibody is detected the recipient can then manufacture its own response?

 

Hard to say but probably not. The antibodies are temporary with a 36-45 half-life. I suppose it is possible that the antibody from the donor triggers a T-cell that then bonds with a B-cell that wasn't activated before producing a new set of antibodies that now create a cycle. I doubt it though.

[sf_mom]

Another possible benefit...... helps to eliminate deposits in the Basil Ganglia.

[peglem]

So, our own immune system creates immune memory, but we don't store memory from the donor IgG?

[Charlotte Mom]

Buster,

Do antibiotics work the same way as IVIG? I am trying to understand why for some (Sammy) antibiotics alone did the trick. Do the antibiotics eventually acheive everything an IVIG dose? Is IVIG just a way of excellerating antibiotic results? If so, then why go conservative on prophalactic antibiotic dose? Our dd11 got IVIG a month ago and is only on 250 mg of Zithromax per day. We were surprised that the dose wasn't higher.