Cam Kinase II Levels

[T_Mom]

Any insights?

 

Ok, I am still trying to figure out just exactly what Cam Kinase II indicates--

 

"Activation" of neural impulses--correct? Is that what we know right now?

Do we know if it is specifically "strep" related "activation" or could it also be caused by some other type of activation of neural impulses?

Does anyone know if it can be activated by issues other than "strep"?

 

Our second d came back with high Cam Kinase II ... and this is bothering me to no end.

 

Thanks for any insights here--I'd appreciate any information that you think may be helpful--

[sf_mom]

My understanding is that the CaM Kinase Protein is only activated by Streptococcus Bacteria. However, there are many stains of streptococcus and I don't think the results are specific to only streptococcus A.

[T_Mom]

My understanding is that the CaM Kinase Protein is only activated by Streptococcus Bacteria. However, there are many stains of streptococcus and I don't think the results are specific to only streptococcus A.

 

 

Thanks SF Mom--but where did we get this impression from I am wondering?

 

I am not sure I have seen this stated anywhere in the research by Dr. Cunningham.

Thanks for the input.

[sf_mom]

My understanding is that the CaM Kinase Protein is only activated by Streptococcus Bacteria. However, there are many stains of streptococcus and I don't think the results are specific to only streptococcus A.

 

 

Thanks SF Mom--but where did we get this impression from I am wondering?

 

I am not sure I have seen this stated anywhere in the research by Dr. Cunningham.

Thanks for the input.

 

I think the information has been ingrained in my head through interpretation of studies by others and my attempts to understand it all. However, I think I might need to correct myself because it is specifically group A streptococcal. Anyway... hopefully the paragraph taken from the article

 

'Antibody-mediated neuronal cell signaling in behavior and movement disorders' published in 2006 by Christine A. Kirvan a , Susan E. Swedo b , Lisa A. Snider b , Madeleine W. Cunningham c ,⁎, 1

 

Gives you the information you are looking for... I have also e-mailed Dr. Cunningham on occasion and she had always been very receptive and responsive.

 

 

Our hypothesis is that antibody-mediated autoimmune

mechanisms as well as infection may contribute to the

pathogenesis of some movement and behavioral disorders. In

SC, group A streptococcal infections induce cross-reactive

antibodies that deposit in the basal ganglia and lead to CaM

kinase II activation in neuronal cells (Kirvan et al., 2003).

PANDAS sera were found to induce significantly higher

levels of CaM kinase II activation than sera from non-

PANDAS OCD, tic, and ADHD groups not associated with

streptococcal infection. In fact, PANDAS patients diagnosed

with isolated tics produced the highest level of CaM kinase II

activity similar to chorea. Although we do not know exactly

how disease producing IgG antibodies cross the blood–brain

barrier, we can suggest that infection or the antibody itself

may affect the blood–brain barrier.

[EAMom]

I think once the wheels of Pandas are set in motion, I think any illness could cause an increase in CaM kinase, since any illness could cause an exacerbation.

 

That would be a good question for Dr. Cunningham though.

 

Our dd's cam kinase ll was super high (253) just after the flu, but we don't have a value immediately b-4 the flu, just 3mo. before (183).

[sf_mom]

EAMom I concur: Taken from the other article I posted earlier..... Swedo's comments

 

Compounding the problem is the durability of strep antibodies. They can remain on the prowl for a hook up weeks after the strep is gone. Subsequent infections or even colds can stimulate the immune system to produce more of the same kind of antibodies which the triggered the original symptoms. PANDAS children can then abruptly re-experience the same symptoms after a symptom-free span of time. Dr. Swedo explained, "We see a saw-toothed pattern of symptoms, extreme outbursts of behaviors for a brief period in response to the infections and then the child may be relatively symptom-free for a period of time."

[peglem]

Any insights?

 

Ok, I am still trying to figure out just exactly what Cam Kinase II indicates--

 

"Activation" of neural impulses--correct? Is that what we know right now?

Do we know if it is specifically "strep" related "activation" or could it also be caused by some other type of activation of neural impulses?

Does anyone know if it can be activated by issues other than "strep"?

 

Our second d came back with high Cam Kinase II ... and this is bothering me to no end.

 

Thanks for any insights here--I'd appreciate any information that you think may be helpful--

Remember, its not high levels of CamK- its high ACTIVATION of the CamK. I think we do know that it is caused by the strepA antibodies- remember the mouse model, they were able to produce PANDAS in the mice with just the antibodies, w/o the bacteria. But, I don't think its clear whether or not pathogens other than strepA can cause the creation of antibodies that have the same or similar effects. I think that falls under the category of "hasn't been studied." It wouldn't surprise me though!

[T_Mom]

Thank you very much for the responses--

 

As the article ('Antibody-mediated neuronal cell signaling in behavior and movement disorders' , 2006 by Kirvan, et.al) states: "PANDAS sera were found to induce significantly higher levels of CaM kinase II activation than sera from non- PANDAS ... In fact, PANDAS patients diagnosed with isolated tics produced the highest level of CaM kinase II activity similar to chorea. "

 

This study seems to indicate, to my non-medical understanding, that there is resulting Cam Kinase II activation via the sera from "Pandas" children --but it does not state that Cam Kinase II is solely activated by strep--right?

 

I think this brings up the question:

Can other things either cause or contribute to Cam Kinase II activation? Such as an illness--inflammation, etc.

 

I think I am in agreement with Peglem, in that CamKinase II activation occurs with strep but the verdict is still out as to what else may cause it? --Anyone know anything different?

 

SFMom--thanks for your comments--can you share the article that you have referenced or the location of the article? re: Swedo's comments? I have not run across that one (I think:)

Best,

TMom

[sf_mom]

I didn't like the entire article because it discouraged use of antibiotics

 

Thank you very much for the responses--

As the article ('Antibody-mediated neuronal cell signaling in behavior and movement disorders' , 2006 by Kirvan, et.al) states: "PANDAS sera were found to induce significantly higher levels of CaM kinase II activation than sera from non- PANDAS ... In fact, PANDAS patients diagnosed with isolated tics produced the highest level of CaM kinase II activity similar to chorea. "

This study seems to indicate, to my non-medical understanding, that there is resulting Cam Kinase II activation via the sera from "Pandas" children --but it does not state that Cam Kinase II is solely activated by strep--right?

I think this brings up the question:
Can other things either cause or contribute to Cam Kinase II activation? Such as an illness--inflammation, etc.

I think I am in agreement with Peglem, in that CamKinase II activation occurs with strep but the verdict is still out as to what else may cause it? --Anyone know anything different?

SFMom--thanks for your comments--can you share the article that you have referenced or the location of the article? re: Swedo's comments? I have not run across that one (I think:)
Best,
TMom

Edited October 25, 2016 by Administrator
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