Dog as a strep carrier?

[nojo]

Hi, I have 2 daughters, one with PANDAS, one without. One of our main difficulties is the frequency of our strep infections. Our pattern is diagnosis, 10 day antibiotic, one week to 10 days off, and then the cycle starts again. We generally culture negative after the 10 days, so I think we are clearing the strep. We have no tonsils, We throw out tooth brushes. Could our dog be a carrier? Has anyone ever heard of this? Our vet refused to swab the dog a year ago, but treated her. We are still dealing with strep on a monthly basis, and after calling back, he doesn't think that could be an issue, and won't test her. Should I find a new vet? When one of my daughters gets strep, the other always does, and as you can imagine, it is especially hard on the one that I suspect has PANDAS.

 

Also any other suggestions would be helpful. Should we see an infectious disease specialist? Do prophylactic antibiotics help with the repeated infections? I have got to get the recurrent infections under control! FYI, my husband and I don't get strep, and have been tested and are not carriers. Thanks for any help. Noelle

[colleenrn]

Noelle,

 

Yes, dogs can have strep. Someone on this forum recently had her dog tested and he was positive for strep A. A lot of vets and physicians think this is not possible, but it definitely is!

 

A lot of times the strep after 10 days of antibiotics is still in the tonsils, but that is not your case if your child has had them removed. Did they remove the adenoids also? What antibiotics do you use for strep?

I am running out the door, but would be happy to add more info later.

Colleen

[dcmom]

Just a thought:

 

My helpful neurologist was the only doctor to admit to me that cultures are not always accurate. He explained, if one is a strep carrier, or if one has strep with out pharyngitis, the swab can miss the strep cells hiding out in the tonsil/throat area. Therefore get a false negative. It makes sense to me. In other words if the throat is not infected- they may not swab in the specific area where the strep cells are.

 

At the same time, he did not indicate a blood test for everyone in the house. If you do have a consistent problem, though, I might consider it.

 

Also, when you have the strep test done, you can ask them to test it for sensitivity to antibiotics. Antibiotics can fail against certain strains, and you may have to try another. We have done all 3 :cephalosporin, amoxicillin and now zithromax. My neurologist is giving her 20 days on therapeutic zithromax to help insure we have beat the strep.

 

I think there may be a strep carrier in my daughter's class. Kids just keep coming down with it week after week. Some days dd comes home pale and exhausted (maybe because she has been exposed?)

 

Theoretically, the prophylactic antibiotics are supposed to ward of strep. I think the jury is out on that- but we are on them now anyway. (we still have not kicked the OCD and anxiety).

 

The infectious disease doctor I went to was NO help. I would suggest a neurologist who believes in pandas. Where do you live, maybe someone could give you a suggestion...

 

Hang in there!

[familyof4]

Dogs can and do carry strep. When I was a little girl it seemed like someone in the family always had strep - either me, my sister or my mom. We finally figured out that our St Bernard that was a carrier through our vet.

[Dedee]

My guess is there is a strep carrier around one of your girls. Could easily be in school. We believed that my son had a carrier when he was in 5th grade. That was the year we finally started daily antibiotics after four infections and tonsillectomy. Grade schools are rampent with strep. I would do whatever I could for daily antibiotics if you really think your daughter is PANDAS. That much strep eventually takes it's toll. After four in a row, my son started having horrible tics and terrible PANDAS symptoms in an explosive manner. Seemed that it all built up and hit at once and I'm telling you, it wasn't pretty. She needs to avoid strep at all costs. Good luck.

 

Dedee

[nojo]

My guess is there is a strep carrier around one of your girls. Could easily be in school. We believed that my son had a carrier when he was in 5th grade. That was the year we finally started daily antibiotics after four infections and tonsillectomy. Grade schools are rampent with strep. I would do whatever I could for daily antibiotics if you really think your daughter is PANDAS. That much strep eventually takes it's toll. After four in a row, my son started having horrible tics and terrible PANDAS symptoms in an explosive manner. Seemed that it all built up and hit at once and I'm telling you, it wasn't pretty. She needs to avoid strep at all costs. Good luck.

 

Dedee

 

Does this mean that my other daughter, who also gets strep monthly, but without PANDAS, should be antibiotics? At this rate, our ped said he would do it, because although he has reservations, we are on 2 weeks of every month anyways!

[nojo]

Noelle,

 

Yes, dogs can have strep. Someone on this forum recently had her dog tested and he was positive for strep A. A lot of vets and physicians think this is not possible, but it definitely is!

 

A lot of times the strep after 10 days of antibiotics is still in the tonsils, but that is not your case if your child has had them removed. Did they remove the adenoids also? What antibiotics do you use for strep?

I am running out the door, but would be happy to add more info later.

Colleen

 

both girls have tonsils and adenoids removed. We have run the gammunt from penicillin shot, amox, keflex, azythromyacin, omnicef. Sorry for spelling mistakes, I'm worn out! What do I do with my dog, should I find a vet to test her?

[nojo]

Just a thought:

 

My helpful neurologist was the only doctor to admit to me that cultures are not always accurate. He explained, if one is a strep carrier, or if one has strep with out pharyngitis, the swab can miss the strep cells hiding out in the tonsil/throat area. Therefore get a false negative. It makes sense to me. In other words if the throat is not infected- they may not swab in the specific area where the strep cells are.

 

At the same time, he did not indicate a blood test for everyone in the house. If you do have a consistent problem, though, I might consider it.

 

Also, when you have the strep test done, you can ask them to test it for sensitivity to antibiotics. Antibiotics can fail against certain strains, and you may have to try another. We have done all 3 :cephalosporin, amoxicillin and now zithromax. My neurologist is giving her 20 days on therapeutic zithromax to help insure we have beat the strep.

 

I think there may be a strep carrier in my daughter's class. Kids just keep coming down with it week after week. Some days dd comes home pale and exhausted (maybe because she has been exposed?)

 

Theoretically, the prophylactic antibiotics are supposed to ward of strep. I think the jury is out on that- but we are on them now anyway. (we still have not kicked the OCD and anxiety).

 

The infectious disease doctor I went to was NO help. I would suggest a neurologist who believes in pandas. Where do you live, maybe someone could give you a suggestion...

 

Hang in there!

Thanks, you've got some good ideas to think about. I know that we have to quit getting strep like this. It is crazy, my friends don't understand, and I am afraid it is seriously damaging my daughter.

[dut]

Perhaps you're not getting reinfected, just never getting rid of it in the first place. You can culture negative 1-2 weeks after antibiotics and reculture positive a few weeks later. e.g. a certain % of kids get perianal strep 3 or so weeks after finishing abx. The strep doesn't get properly eradicated and just hides out.. in these case in the anal tract.

 

Maybe discuss an eradication protocol with your dr - I believe some drs will use 2 abx at once such as pen and a cephalosporin. We've never done this 'cos we've always got rid of the strep with amox or zith.. but it maybe worth talking about with your dr. if perhaps the abx didn't do it singly.

 

Perhaps you could do some sort of serotyping on the cultures to see if it's the same strain each time and therefore more likely that you just never hit it hard enough to get rid of it (if that's possible). And change vet.. our vet cultured our cats no problem...and they didn't look too traumatised :-)

[dcmom]

I am not a doctor, only a parent trying to figure this whole thing out.

 

Here is what I think: if your non pandas daughter is asymptomatic when she tests positive for strep, then it seems she is a carrier, and should be treated because of her pandas sister. If, on the other hand, she is symptomatic (sore throat, fever) and has strep that frequently, it is time to see an ENT and talk about taking out the tonsils and adnoids (for her health, and also for pandas daughter).

 

I don't think anyone on the forum advocates this, and I certainly am not doing this, but I did meet a family (who was part of original NIH study) that kept all of their children on antibiotics, until pandas child turned 16, to keep strep out of the house. In other words- it is pretty important to limit exposure to strep.

 

Good luck...

 

side note: pandas dd is headed to ent in two weeks- we are planning on removing tonsils. Her sister's were removed two years ago for sleep apnea.

[T_Mom]

Hi Noelle and All--

Noelle, some of the best advice I have gotten was reading a post by EAMom--reading that therapeutic strength Azithro for an extended period had been helpful--

 

I could not get Azithro at the time, but we did have therapeutic strength Amoxicillan. We decided to try that for a month.

 

Our daughter improved so much from week to week that we continued for three+ months on therapeutic strength Amoxicillan (as well as probiotic drinks 3xs a day). Since her symptoms have plateaued now for a few weeks, after a steroid burst last month, it seems to be time to move to half strength Amox.

 

The effects of what I would consider brain healing--(after a bad time at Christmas which set her back) the effects for our daughter from the Amoxicillan and then steroid burst have been dramatic. I am not recommending, just wanted to share what worked for us. Her classroom teacher told me in January that our daughter was "the worst writer in the class". April 3rd the same teacher told me she was like a different child, Math and Writing much improved. I would say she is 98% now. We have also done Omega 3s (Nordic Naturals EPA-Xtra, 2 capsules a day for about 1500mg total) Vit. C 1000mg, and low level Prozac. Someone had told me Dr Murphy recommended heavy on the EPA to DHA for Omega.

 

Last year a friend, who was a former-nurse, had questioned why we didn't just do long-term full strength antibiotics to try to clear her. Now I wish we had done this sooner, for us this was encouraging.

[nojo]

I am not a doctor, only a parent trying to figure this whole thing out.

 

Here is what I think: if your non pandas daughter is asymptomatic when she tests positive for strep, then it seems she is a carrier, and should be treated because of her pandas sister. If, on the other hand, she is symptomatic (sore throat, fever) and has strep that frequently, it is time to see an ENT and talk about taking out the tonsils and adnoids (for her health, and also for pandas daughter).

 

I don't think anyone on the forum advocates this, and I certainly am not doing this, but I did meet a family (who was part of original NIH study) that kept all of their children on antibiotics, until pandas child turned 16, to keep strep out of the house. In other words- it is pretty important to limit exposure to strep.

 

Good luck...

 

side note: pandas dd is headed to ent in two weeks- we are planning on removing tonsils. Her sister's were removed two years ago for sleep apnea.

 

Thanks for the thought. Unfortunately, both daughters have no tonsils or adenoids. My younger one, without pandas, does show symptoms, (her big calling card being strep rash), so I don't think she can be the carrier. They are 14 months apart and are inseparable, most nights they even sleep together. Do you think the ent would have other ideas, or at this point should i try infectious disease. I appreciate all of you taking the time to reply, it helps me feel less alone.

[dcmom]

If I were you, and this is a tough call, I would consider treating both with a strong antibiotic like zithromax for a couple of weeks (maybe up to a month). Then I would consider putting both on prophylactic antibiotics until school let out. I am sure it will be hard to find a doctor to go for that though, do you have someone really supportive? I don't think it is typical for a child with a normal immune system to come down with strep that often, what does her pediatrician think?

 

The great thing about this forum is that you are not alone. It is so helpful to talk to someone who understands, it is hard to explain pandas (and the lack of help from the medical community) to friends. It can be very isolating. There are also many people on here who have been going through this for a while, and are very smart and informed about the science of it all (this is not me).

 

Best wishes...

[mom2ty]

Hi all,

 

Our infectious disease doctor was the one who suggested to us that the family dog can carry strep. I've called the vet, waiting for a response.

[nojo]

Hi all,

 

Our infectious disease doctor was the one who suggested to us that the family dog can carry strep. I've called the vet, waiting for a response.

 

Initially our vet said there was no possibility. He said he checked with other vets on med boards. Yesterday, one told him it is rare, but not unheard of, so he agreed to do the test today. I'll update all of you with our results.

 

Do other people out there get strep with the frequency that we do? (approx 1 time per month)? I am going to start researching the idea that we are not really clearing it totally. You can imagine the havoc this causes in our house. I do know that school is a contributing factor, since we do tend to get strep less in the summer (but we still get it during the summer). Strep seems to be the bain of my existance! I am meeting for lunch someone else from the board today. I feel lucky to have found someone else in my area going through this mess!