Anyone read the New York Times Educate Your Immune System article?

[mama4]

Did anyone else read the NYX article from last Sunday on the microbiome and autoimmune disorders: Educate Your Immune System? It talks a lot about autoimmune disorders. I know my DC was on lots of antibiotics as a baby...Perhaps a connection?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/opinion/sunday/educate-your-immune-system.html

 

Has anyone tried a probiotic enema? It seems like one of those "couldn't hurt to try" (well maybe a bit uncomfortable...).

 

Does anyone else know of formal research (or anecdotal reports) on this?

 

Here is another post regarding probiotic treatment. I guess a lot of the oral probiotics don't get past the digestive system, so the direct route may work better. At least it is easier than a fecal transplant.

 

http://latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23342

[jan251]

Random thoughts:

 

Antibiotics as a baby - yes, our immunologist thinks that negatively affects the immune system at a critical period of development (but at the time, they made sense - not sure whether we necessarily could have chosen differently due to the medical issues).

 

I haven't looked closely at a probiotic enema but I'd do that in a heartbeat. Trouble is, I don't think my 13 y.o. would, if you know what I mean.

 

FWIW, I read elsewhere that it may be possible to insert probiotic capsules into the rectum, though I'd guess there might be an issue with not getting as far in as an enema would.

 

On the article - interesting. One thing I noted in the Finn vs Russian comparison is that the Finns ate more processed food. What might bug me most about processed food is that so much of processed grain products contain folic acid. It would be interesting to know how many of the Finns have genetic polymorphisms affecting methylation and liver clearance (not just MTHFR). My understanding is that these may affect the immune system just as much as germs, i.e. ultimately the micro biome is going to be affected in some way.

 

(as a total aside, when we look at rising rates of adhd, asd, etc., I wonder if the folic acid issue has ever been tracked over time... it is very hard to buy processed grain products that don't contain folic acid, especially for bread/cereal/pasta, even flour, except for some organic brands)

 

ETA, I'd wonder about differences in vaccine schedules between the comparison groups.

Edited June 9, 2016 by jan251

[mama4]

I think there are probiotic suppositories that might work as well. I am going to do a little research.

 

I would like to know more about genetic markers. Seems like we have a lot of people who could give an anonymous sample on boards like these. I know there is a lot of complexities re: privacy issues, scientific rigor, but I imagine a even a biology grad student could collect and crunch numbers within a couple of months. I would like to see a survey of symptoms and treatments tried as well. There is just a wealth of info on these boards-is someone analyzing this?

[mama4]

I just ran across this study. Wow!

A Possible Link between Early Probiotic Intervention and the risk of Neuropsychiatric Disorders Later in Childhood: A Randomized Trial

 

http://www.nutri-linkltd.co.uk/2015/07/31/a-possible-link-between-early-probiotic-intervention-and-the-risk-of-neuropsychiatric-disorders-later-in-childhood-a-randomized-trial/

[jan251]

I hadn't seen that one before. From the article:

 

Interestingly they state – Probiotics had no significant effect on microbiota composition in the study suggesting that the effects on central nervous system were either induced by altered vagal afferent signalling or by systemic metabolic changes related to probiotic intake.

 

Here's the study: http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v77/n6/full/pr201551a.html

 

L. rhamnosus GG is Culturelle. (I haven't looked at it in a while, but I have a vague recollection that some versions of Culturelle include a prebiotic, FOS, that might not agree with all people.)

[mama4]

Interesting. Although this is about the preventive effect of probiotics for neuropsychiatric issues, maybe a clue about treatment options. I have also been reading that some probiotics can cause problems for certain people.

[kim]

(as a total aside, when we look at rising rates of adhd, asd, etc., I wonder if the folic acid issue has ever been tracked over time... it is very hard to buy processed grain products that don't contain folic acid, especially for bread/cereal/pasta, even flour, except for some organic brands)

 

ETA, I'd wonder about differences in vaccine schedules between the comparison groups.

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160511105352.htm

Too much folate in pregnant women increases risk for autism, study suggests

 

Jan, your remarks made me think of this. I remember some being unimpressed with this research although I don't remember the specific criticism.

Edited June 24, 2016 by kim

[jan251]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160511105352.htm

Too much folate in pregnant women increases risk for autism, study suggests

 

Jan, your remarks made me think of this. I remember some being unimpressed with this research although I don't remember the specific criticism.

 

That's interesting! The discussion in this article conflates folic acid with folate when they are not processed the same by everyone. It all goes back to the methylation cycle. Multiple polymorphisms in various combinations may be helped by supplementing only some portions of the methyl cycle but not others. Many people with MTHFR do not process folic acid well and may be unable to convert it into folate. Others find difficulty in supplementing folate itself because other parts of the methyl cycle aren't working well due to genetic polymorphisms. It should not be surprising to the researchers that the one-size-fits-all approach of supplementing everyone via almost the entire wheat-related food supply (in addition to the standard prenatal vitamin recommendations) might result in unintended consequences.

 

(Completely random thinking out loud without actually knowing the answer: do gluten-free food products contain supplemental folic acid? What if some people's benefit from GF isn't related to avoiding gluten but to avoiding folic acid?)

 

More research is needed, the scientists say, in order to determine just how much folic acid

 

Indeed.

Edited June 24, 2016 by jan251

[mama4]

I think you are on to something here! As to your question about whether GF products contain folic acid:

 

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/food-matters/going-gluten-free-things-to-consider-part-1-folate/

 

"One study took a look at the gluten-free flours, breads, pastas and cold cereals of 16 companies to see how they compared to their gluten-containing counterparts, in terms of folate. Of 37 gluten-free cereal products, 30 contained lower amounts of folate, compared to fortified, gluten-containing cereals. None of the gluten-free bread or pasta products in the study were enriched with folic acid."

 

 

Is it the lack of gluten or the lack of added folic acid which helps them?

 

I guess you could test this by going GF and then adding GF products with added folic acid.

 

Maybe adding folic acid to everything can harm people with a certain genetic makeup. Maybe part of the increase in autoimmune problems/ADHD etc etc. Has anyone studied this?

 

Not a scientific study, but talks about the folic acid issue:

http://mthfrliving.com/health-tips/mthfr-avoid-folic-acid-in-food/