Spectracell, Glutathione, and other questions

[BeeRae22]

Dd has been making great strides over the past few months, increasing and steady progress, with 2 minor flares associated with colds (sneezing, coughing) that cleared up rather quickly.

 

The past couple of weeks, her anxiety seems to be up, in an "on and off" fashion, and she has been having brief but intense moments of aggressive/ODD behaviors. For instance, yesterday I was brushing her hair, and it was "hurting" her head, so she got very angry, stomping around, smacking me, etc. -- not full blown raging, just a few minutes of nasty, unreasonable behavior..... This morning, it was her brother interrupting her with a video game she was trying to help him with. She got unreasonably angry, hitting me, saying she hates both of us, etc.

 

For the last month, this has been happening every once in awhile, but it seems like the past week or so it's been happening more frequently. The few months prior to that she really hadn't had any behaviors at all and was making progress with other symptoms too (eating, etc).

 

We just got Spectracell results and some others.... The biggest, glaring result was her antioxidant function which was very low-- her glutathione level was completely tanked-- her Pans doctor said he's only had 2 patients with levels that low ever, and he is the only doc in this area that even does Spectracell from what I understand.

 

So, we started S-Acetyl Glutathione last Monday, it's been 6 days. Question- could this be causing any sort of herx or issues? She's been having more "micro" odd/aggressive episodes in the past week than she has in months. Her doctor said we shouldn't see any issues because of the Acetyl glutathione, so I don't know if she was just heading in this direction anyway, or if it's causing a problem?

 

Other results- positive for one copy of c677T mutation MTHFR (negative for A1298C) C4A level high at 6113, mycoplasma pneumonia IGM finally in range at 639, but IGG still >5. Total antioxidant function- deficient.

 

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated! Lately when she has behaviors, all I can think to myself is that I'm SO SICK OF THIS she was doing so well, and she's still so much better than she was, but it's hard to see her having issues frequently again after such great progress. Hopefully just a minor setback.

Edited November 29, 2014 by beerae22

[BeeRae22]

Unfortunate update already... Raging this morning Help!!!! a bit of sneezing too, generally not a "sneezer". Flair? Glutathione reaction? Thoughts?

[sf_mom]

Glutatione can cause a herx as it activates the immune response. Some kids have a really difficult time with it. I have had periods where IV glutatione makes me feel amazing and periods where IV glutatione makes me feel horrible. I think my response depends on how my body is dumping. I have horrible genetic markers for methylation.

 

With levels that low I would be checking for yeast, mold, heavy metals, absorption. Yeast and ability to absorb vitamins/minerals go hand in hand. Comprehensive stool is the best test to determine both. Mold (I think you checked or are checking). For heavy metals I would do an IV challenge of DMSA or EDTA.

[sf_mom]

Of course, it could be a virus or bacterial infection triggering latest symptoms as well.

[sf_mom]

How were her zinc/copper ratios on SpectraCell results. Typically, if copper is higher and zinc is borderline or low that would also indicate heavy metals issue. Copper levels tend to stay high when metals are involved.

Edited November 29, 2014 by sf_mom

[BeeRae22]

Zinc right at borderline at 41, Copper at reasonable 53. Doesn't seem concerning in that area, right? Or is 53 too high in relation to borderline copper at 41?

 

Any recommendations re: glutathione? I don't know what to do-- keep going with it and try to push through a possible herx? give it a break already? Cut in half? I am so disappointed- I really thought this was going to be the key to the last piece of this I can't afford to do any more testing that wont be covered by insurance right now, but her doc is usually willing to try new treatments based on symptoms. I guess I'll call in Monday and see what he thinks.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts?

[BeeRae22]

And is zinc/copper directly related to glutathione in any way? I know it's all connected, but don't know the relation. We also had difficulty "experimenting" with folate as well, but we're holding off on that for now while working on glutathione.

[rowingmom]

As long as she is not acting adversely to the S-Acetyl Glutathione version of glutathione for some reason (as opposed to the regular liposomal glutathione), I would think that your DD is experiencing a herx.

 

If your DD has had issues with folate (were they high doses?) she is obviously having trouble with part of the methylation cycle (which is also involved with detoxification) as well.

 

From anything I have read the S-Acetyl Glutathione form is readily absorbed, so perhaps she is just taking in more than her backed up pathways can handle.

[BeeRae22]

This is the first time we've tried any form of glutathione, so I have nothing to compare it to.

 

She was getting 2 drops per day of Super Liquid Folate, and when we upped to 3 (and accidentally gave her a multivitamin at the same time-- oops!) she had off the wall behaviors the next day when she'd gone months before with virtually no behaviors. We stopped folate all together, and then she had a cold, etc. so we did nothing for awhile (except the antibiotics) and now we're trying the S-Acetyl glutathione to see what that does before trying the folate again.

 

So, what would you do? Reduce dose? Skip a day and try again? Stop completely? Not sure how to proceed.... I'm thinking I'll skip it tonight and go to half a dose tomorrow night maybe? I hate guessing! :/

Edited November 29, 2014 by beerae22

[rowingmom]

I'd skip tonight, which will give her body some time to work through any buildup and start again at half dose tomorrow.

 

You may find the same reaction to half dose only it might take longer to build, in which case, try decreasing again. If you find a dose that she can consistently handle stay there for a couple of weeks before increasing or adding anything new (ie folate).

 

Are you charting so you can show all of this visually to your doctor?

[BeeRae22]

I take notes, but haven't needed to chart up until this point. I probably should. Any suggestions for a good charting method? Something easy? I will skip tonight and wait and see. I'm wondering how long I could expect it to take her to process last night's dose? If she's still struggling tomorrow, for instance, would you still attribute that to the glutathione she had last night, or something else? If still struggling tomorrow, would you hold off for another day, or go ahead with the 1/2 dose?

[rowingmom]

I would give another whole day off. It won't hurt anything and may give you clues as to what is going on.

 

If you would like a copy of DD's Excel charts to use as a template, message me with your e-mail address. I can't take responsibility for developing the chart. That all goes to LLM. Not sure where we would be without it.

 

This all gets easier after a while.

 

You just need to realize that every change you make to protocol has the potential to cause die-off (or perhaps allergic reaction). Introductions need to be made slowly, changes need to be made one at a time with ample time between changes to note whether or not a difference has been observed, and you have to be very conscious of reactions.

 

Charting makes it all very visual.

Edited November 29, 2014 by rowingmom

[BeeRae22]

Sent you a pm thanks! We are taking things one at a time, but I guess I only expected good results this time-- I should've known better by now I guess! But maybe a herx isn't such a bad thing- might mean we're hitting something, right?

[sf_mom]

With SpectraCell we treat anything that is borderline or deficient result.

 

When things settle and you figure out Glutatione issue I would supplement with 30 mg zinc daily. In six to nine months consider retesting SpectraCell and if zinc glutatione levels have not budged definitely consider heavy metals/mold/yeast as an issue. My children also had similar 'very low Glutatione' levels..... With no absorption. We actually nebulize Glutatione as a result.

[rowingmom]

When things settle and you figure out Glutatione issue I would supplement with 30 mg zinc daily.

 

You haven't found any zinc:copper ratio disruptions with this amount of daily zinc? You are treating pyroluria?

 

We have never tested for kryptopyrroles.

 

http://chriskresser.com/rhr-could-copper-zinc-imbalance-be-making-you-sick

 

So, the ideal ratio between these two, if copper is in the numerator and zinc is in the denominator, would be 0.7 to 1, which means anywhere from 70% as much copper as zinc to even amounts of each. And one of the ways that you can recognize this or when you might suspect this, and this will tie into a future question that we’re gonna talk about a little bit later in the show, is that copper and zinc are not only minerals, but they’re also regarded as neurotransmitters in the brain. They have some of the functions of a neurotransmitter, so an imbalance in copper and zinc will lead to things like hyperactivity, ADHD, other kinds of behavioral disorders, and depression; and in fact, a lot of people who are labeled with autism and even paranoid schizophrenia, when they test their copper levels, they find out that they’re elevated. Then high copper can cause severe PMS. That’s another red flag for me where I’ll consider it. It can cause estrogen intolerance, and it can cause skin issues, so people with excess copper have a high incidence of acne or eczema, psoriasis, just sensitive skin in general, sunburn, people who are really apt to get sunburned even if they’re only out for a short period of time, headaches, poor immune function. Another characteristic sign is white spots under the fingernails, excess copper and deficient zinc, that can happen. And then elevated copper is a special problem for people with low blood histamine levels and overmethylators, and that can lead to anxiety and even panic disorders and paranoia and, in severe cases, hallucinations. So, as you can see, most of the effects are nervous system related, nervous and endocrine system, I would say, with particular impact on the brain and behavioral health. So, those are the things to look for when you’re considering copper-zinc imbalance as a potential issue.