When weaning off ABX........

[Mayzoo]

As with all of us, my goal is to wean kiddo off ABX. I am trying an all herbal antiviral protocol since 5-5 and it seems to be going well so far. We are at full dose on everything but two herbs. When I get those to full dose, and kiddo is stable (no herxing) again for a week or two, I am going to introduce two herbal ABX, one at a time. When I get one to full dose, I hope to start weaning her off zithromax by 1/4 tab per week while introducing the other herbal ABX. When zithromax is weaned and both herbal ABXs are at full dose, I plan to attempt to wean off augmentin very slowly.

 

Best laid plans of mice and men, but I have to have a plan, even if it has to be modified a million times .

 

Now to the questions for those who have to wean off or down of abx:

 

1. When any of you successfully weaned off/down abx, how long did you see sx before they resolved without giving in to bumping abx up again?

 

2. If you were unsuccessful in weaning off/down, how long did you ride out the sx?

 

3. Was anyone successful without seeing any sx at all?

 

 

Thanks for the all the support and answers to everyone.

Edited June 11, 2014 by mayzoo

[NYCMom]

We were off abx for about a year, mild flares during that time, but pretty great in general. Then ds11 contracted Lyme about a year and a half ago, big flare, then strep, and we've been back on ever since.

[rowingmom]

Like you, we started introducing antimicrobial herbs into our abx mix before we weaned abx. We started with knotweed (1/4 tsp tincture TID) and raw garlic, and then added sida acuta (1/4 tsp tincture BID). It wasn't until after we had weaned that I started adding the other bart-specific herbs. We saw no increase in symptoms related to abx weaning. They were all related to die-off caused by introduction of herbs.

 

When we weaned DD was pulsing minocycline, azithromycin, plaquinel, malarone and tindamax 3 days on 4 days off. To wean we discontinued one antibiotic each week until we were left with only azith (250mg QD). The next week I started increasing/adding herbs.

 

One week after we weaned I increased sida to 1/4 tsp TID (which produced a ticcing flare which decreased within 2 weeks) and then 1 week after I added 1/8 tsp houttuynia QD, increasing houttuynia by 1/8 QD every week.

 

Looking back, my dosage of sida was too high. 1/4 tsp = 32 drops, and I was giving that TID. At the moment we are only using 15 drops TID. One of the side effects of sida for us (both DD and I because I am taking an identical protocol) was hair loss. It is a good broadly acting antimicrobial though.

 

Please be careful of trying to attain maximum recommended dosage. I tried this in the beginning. Knowing that houttuynia is used specifically for bartonella I really tried to reach the 1 tbsp. daily but herxing got too bad at 1/2 tsp TID - only 1/2 the recommended amount. Panic attacks and palpitations were the result for both DD and myself. When the panic attacks started I immediately stopped houttuynia and they resolved within 3 days. This is the only way to tell a herx from a relapse. I then resumed at lower dosages. We are now taking 1/4 tsp powdered herb infusion TID and are doing just fine. DD has no remaining bartonella symptoms. Long bone pain and headaches are just a memory.

 

Everyone is different and everyone's bacterial/viral loads are different. What works for one may bring on massive herxing for another. You will not be able to tell the difference between herxing and relapse unless symptoms decline with decreased dosages and increased detoxing protocols.

 

Please don't try too much at once. Nothing good will come of it.

[Mayzoo]

We were off abx for about a year, mild flares during that time, but pretty great in general. Then ds11 contracted Lyme about a year and a half ago, big flare, then strep, and we've been back on ever since.

 

Sorry to hear about the set back. This journey is most definitely full of them.

[Mayzoo]

Like you, we started introducing antimicrobial herbs into our abx mix before we weaned abx. We started with knotweed (1/4 tsp tincture TID) and raw garlic, and then added sida acuta (1/4 tsp tincture BID). It wasn't until after we had weaned that I started adding the other bart-specific herbs. We saw no increase in symptoms related to abx weaning. They were all related to die-off caused by introduction of herbs.

 

When we weaned DD was pulsing minocycline, azithromycin, plaquinel, malarone and tindamax 3 days on 4 days off. To wean we discontinued one antibiotic each week until we were left with only azith (250mg QD). The next week I started increasing/adding herbs.

 

One week after we weaned I increased sida to 1/4 tsp TID (which produced a ticcing flare which decreased within 2 weeks) and then 1 week after I added 1/8 tsp houttuynia QD, increasing houttuynia by 1/8 QD every week.

 

Looking back, my dosage of sida was too high. 1/4 tsp = 32 drops, and I was giving that TID. At the moment we are only using 15 drops TID. One of the side effects of sida for us (both DD and I because I am taking an identical protocol) was hair loss. It is a good broadly acting antimicrobial though.

 

Please be careful of trying to attain maximum recommended dosage. I tried this in the beginning. Knowing that houttuynia is used specifically for bartonella I really tried to reach the 1 tbsp. daily but herxing got too bad at 1/2 tsp TID - only 1/2 the recommended amount. Panic attacks and palpitations were the result for both DD and myself. When the panic attacks started I immediately stopped houttuynia and they resolved within 3 days. This is the only way to tell a herx from a relapse. I then resumed at lower dosages. We are now taking 1/4 tsp powdered herb infusion TID and are doing just fine. DD has no remaining bartonella symptoms. Long bone pain and headaches are just a memory.

 

Everyone is different and everyone's bacterial/viral loads are different. What works for one may bring on massive herxing for another. You will not be able to tell the difference between herxing and relapse unless symptoms decline with decreased dosages and increased detoxing protocols.

 

Please don't try too much at once. Nothing good will come of it.

 

So far, so good and only minimal herxing that is controlled with the knotweed, CBD oil combos. She has been at her weight max dose on everything but lomatium and rhodiola for about 6 days. I just added the lomatium in a lose dose on today. Will see how that goes for a few days before deciding to go up, down or stay here for a bit.

 

Yeah, when I see progress, I tend to go too fast, so I am trying VERY VERY hard to control myself and go steady, not fast.

 

Because we do not seem to have lyme et al, I was not planning on using houttuynia. That is good information to have on it though should I ever decide to try it, so thanks. We are going to try cyrptolepis and alchornea instead.

 

Kiddo complains of leg pain, and actually all over body pain that I would love to see go away too. Here is hoping.