IgG supplement increasing tics?

[cara615]

Saw the integrative MD the other day and she said we were on a good path but wanted to include IgG to help his immune system. She prescribed IgG 2000DF by xymogen EP. It contains IgG, IgA, IgM, IgE, IgD and IGF-! and TGFB-1.

 

i gave him 1/4 tsp today with his applesauce and about 30 minutes later we have a new tic. Its his dreaded "EH" tic which I haven't heard in a while.

 

Could it be from the IgG supplement? Is it his body killing off more bacteria and resulting in die off?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

[cara615]

For those of you that don't know what this is, I think its similar to IVIG but just not intravenous. Its powdered immunoglobulin. Anyway, he had some of those "eh" tics last night and then I gave him his NAC (helps detox) and things calmed down.

 

This morning, I did not hear any ticcing at all. Very interesting. i will see what the day brings. I am scared to give him more of the IgG but then again, maybe its helping.....

[rowingmom]

Our LLMD gave us liquid Virapress which is bovine IgG. I never did use it with DD because it caused huge inflammation (flu-like muscle pain symptoms) in myself when I tried it (at very low dose - 3 drops daily). The LLMD wanted DD on 4 drops daily and I was seriously afraid of DD's reaction. It's still in the freezer.

 

For me, Virapress caused inflammation. I have had similar inflammatory responses with large (meaning doses suggested on the bottle) dosages of cat's claw and astragalus. So this makes me think that the bovine immunoglobins did cause die-off which in turn released endotoxins, which increased inflammation. In DD's case the released endotoxins would have increased ticcing. We now only take astragalus 1x every other day (rotated with ColdFX - American ginseng), instead of 3x daily suggested dosage, and this seems to work well at boosting the immune system, but not overly so. Buhner suggests not using astragalus at all with chronic lyme because he says it can increase autoimmune- type responses (here, I think of ticcing and pain), and using cordyceps instead.

 

DD's ticcing is very much a symptom of die-off/toxin buildup. So I imagine if DD was taking immunoblogulin and experiencing a die-off, that her ticcing would also increase.

Edited February 20, 2014 by rowingmom

[cara615]

Yes, that is the same line of thinking. Ds even said that his tummy hurt last night before bed. The IgG was definitely doing something. To me, die off is a good thing, no? I know you need to get through the tough part (increased ticcing) to get to where you reap the benefits. Just like yeast die off.

 

i guess i will see how he is after school. If there is no ticcing, I will give him some more. If he comes home ticcing, I am going to give it a week before I start it again.

[rowingmom]

If he is recovering well from the ticcing, perhaps the additional glutathione he is producing with NAC supplementation is improving his detoxing. You are doing epsom salt baths/lemon water as well, right?

 

I would go really slow with the IgG, recover from die-off (if that's what it is) and see if there is overall improvement after a while. Perhaps pulsing (as we had to do with Tindamax because of die-off). 1-3 days on, 6-4 days off. I'd run it past the MD to get his/her OK. Some don't appreciate us messing around with protocols.

 

Herxing is really only a good thing in that it indicates that you may be on the right track. I don't think it's good for our kids' bodies to be in a constant state of toxic overload. As much as it would be good to be able attack these infections full out, if their bodies can't withstand and eliminate the die-off, they will only get sicker.

 

Keep us updated, I would be interested to know how it goes.

Edited February 20, 2014 by rowingmom

[cara615]

Will do. i like the pulsing idea and I am going to listen to his body. his body will show me if its having a postive effect or not. Yes we are doing Epsom baths every night as well. Thanks so much for you feedback i swear this forum is so much more valuable to me than my MD sometimes!! She knows a lot but I have taught her somethings that i have learned from this forum!

[cara615]

So the "eh" tic is still here this afternoon after I picked him up from school. I guess it must have developed as the day went on. i will NOT be giving him the IgG today. I will wait until this "mini" flare dies down.

 

I hate this rollercoaster. I am going to get some chronic disease from all this anxiety.

[cara615]

i did not give the IgG yesterday and this morning he has red circles under his eyes? He did not eat anything different as far as i am aware, could it be from the IgG?

[rowingmom]

DD had big red circles under eyes recently (mid January), which began about 1 week before she developed a yeast infection. I couldn't figure out what was causing it. She looked as though she had been crying. Her ticcing had increased as well.

 

Then the yeast infection developed with intense itching. It took me a couple days to realize that I had upped her dosage of cryptolepis/sida/alchornea tincture with no thought of it's true antibiotic properties. Physically/mentally she had responded well to the increase and she wasn't herxing, but obviously the herbs were stong enough to require higher amounts of probiotics than she had been getting with daily fermented vegetables.

 

I increased her probiotic supplementation back to what it had been while she was on abx treatment. The itching and red eyes declined, but were still there. Just to give her some relief I gave her 1 dose of diflucan for the yeast infection. Red eyes completely disappeared, itching resolved for 3 days and ticcing improved somewhat.

 

Just to complicate things, at the same time this was going on I had picked up on the posts on fish oil, realized that perhaps I could be increasing omega 3 supplementation and so started DD on krill oil. I think this was one of the things that increased her ticcing.

 

Throughout abx treatment, DD would have dark circles, but not red, associated with die-off. This was the first time I had seen the red circles. She had also been on high doses of probiotics and had never had yeast infection problems during abx treatment.

 

So I now associate DD's red circles with yeast, dark circles with die-off.

 

She is still having a low level itching which concerns me. Our ND says it could also be associated with her higher, unopposed levels of estrogen (DD just started her periods 2 months ago) which will remain unopposed until she starts ovulating which could be up to 1 year.

 

Under her eyes is clear at the moment and ticcing is back to 1/10 (is suggestible only) as we continue higher levels of probiotics and have discontinued omega 3s (much to our ND's dismay). Sorry but she is not getting omega 3 supplementation if it makes her tic. We continue with phosphatidyl choline for brain support. I need to figure out why omega3s cause ticcing for DD.

[rowingmom]

I would imagine that an improvement in immune response could produce yeast die-off as well as bacterial/viral die-off. But for us red eye circles were indicative of yeast infection. Her eyes didn't get redder with diflucan nor did she herx with it, everything just visably resolved.

[cara615]

Wow Yeast. I am going to switch his probiotic today to give him some other strains. If the eyes don't get better by the weekend, I am pulling the trigger on the Nystatin.

 

Thanks rowingmom!

[rowingmom]

Probiotics alone didn't help the red eye circles, but diflucan did. Yeast caused red eye circles in DD's case, not sure about yours. Post what happens with nystatin and then maybe we will have an n=2 result for red eye circles = yeast overload.

 

If I was you I wouldn't change probiotics and add nystatin at the same time. You won't know which caused a response if you get one. Two days is not enough time.

[cara615]

Totally agree. one thing at a time! I picked him up from school today and his eyes were back to normal. No more red circles under them. However his tics are increased, even teacher noticed his throat clearing today. (sigh)

 

So I changed up his probiotics. We were on Ther-biotic detox - 50bill and now i moved him to rebgular Ther-biotic which has a ton more strains in it. i gave him 2 capsules to get to 50 bill.

 

i agree with everyone on my "discouraged" post. There is more to this than what i am treating him for right now. i know i need to dig deeper. I got the 23 and me kit in the mail and I just need to collect enough spit from him (he has trouble spitting). then we can address methylation more accurately.

 

I want to test for co-infections possibly viruses. i just don't believe that what we are experiencing right now is his true baseline. I had him practically tic free from Aug to the end of Oct 2013.

 

Right now he is grunting (clearing throat), making an "eh" noice, licking the collar of his shirt, grinding teeth from time to time and today he was VERY hyper and LOUD!

 

Well, conference is tomorrow so I hope i can get some more info. Thank you for your reposnses and and advice. I don't know what I would do with out you!!! xo