Herxing and Strep

[lovemylittleguy]

Cant seem to find the post I am looking for. If the trigger is strep only my understanding was that you would be unlikely to see herxing on antibiotics? Something about gram negative, positive? Trying to present argument for testing beyond strep as my son herxed for 3 months straight on abx.

 

Thanks

[rowingmom]

I think I made that post. Medical definition:

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/jarisch-herxheimer%20reaction

 

Stephen Buhner suggests that the herxheimer inflammation reaction is not associated only with spirochete infection, but also with other gram negative infections as well. It is not known to be associated with gram positive bacterial infection.

 

Inflammation results when endotoxins are released during the die-off of gram negative bacteria (caused either by the immune system or by antibiotic treatment). This inflammation is responsible for many of the symptoms of gram negative bacterial infections. A herx reaction is an increase in symptoms caused by the additional inflammation produced by the endotoxins released during abx treatment.

 

http://www.biostrategics.com/kpmgendo.pdf

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477572

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6384378

 

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/endotoxin

 

Herx reactions are not usually that long-lived.

 

You may be dealing with an abx intolerance, or if it is a herx reaction that you are seeing, pehaps you son is having difficulty getting rid of the toxins that are being produced. This is where detoxing and proper function of the methylation cycle come into play.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2013 by rowingmom

[lovemylittleguy]

Thank you rowingmom,

Yes it was you and I eventually did find the original post. Thanks for the links as I have more to learn. I believe it was herxing for 2 reasons. First they were intense, and isolated the psychiatric symptom (normally I have everything going at once manic, OCD, anxiety, sadness) and seen 30 min after giving abx (in most cases).

 

More importantly detox of epson salt and lemon juice had almost no effect, then I was told to give magnesium and within 20 min the herx symptoms were gone or hugely reduced (every time). I was told the mag was for detox but have since learned possible anti-inflammatory properties as well. And if herxing causes inflammation that may explain something which I saw that I did not understand. When my son does not have abx for a few weeks symptoms continue to improve and some of best improvements are seen here (ie 3 symptom free days) Then by week 3 or 4 psychiatric symptoms come back.

[sf_mom]

The replication cycle for Lyme is every 28 to 34 days. If you are dealing with Lyme it would make sense to see a worsening of symptoms at 3 to 4 week mark if it is untreated. Or, cause a self resolving herx 3 to 4 days if on combination of antibiotics to treat the Lyme.

 

It is also possible to see a flair from parasites replicating during Full Moon Cycles. The magnetic pull activates them. The full moon for this month was Saturday the 19th.

 

When we started our younger son on antibiotics for Bartonella he raged almost daily for 10 to 14 days. Then once things settled down he would rage once a week on Wednesdays. It took a total of five months for the rages to cease. Prior to that particular combination of antibiotics he was not raging. Life cycle for Bartonella is less than a week.....so, the Wednesday herx's made sense.

Edited October 31, 2013 by SF Mom