GABA? Or what?

[lynn]

I did the 23 and me testing and found results I have posted elsewhere, but one of the recommendations I saw in the Yasko/Heartfixer documents was to try GABA at 500mg/day to soak up glutamates. Since most of the rest of the recommendations for DS's SNPs were slower to work on (finishing on the 12th of What The Heck are You Thinking in the case of DS, DH, and meat restriction) I decided to give the GABA a whirl. I used about a fifth of the capsule (or about 100 mg) and gave it to him with am vitamins for the last 3 days. He had both a major spanish project and a research paper due this weekend and had done nothing on either because of anxiety and wheel spinning. I expected the weekend to be hideous, including having to give him a lot of support on both projects, DS constantly starting fights with DH to divert from what he needed to do, etc.

 

Instead, what happened was that DS barricaded himself in his room, found and read all his sources, came out and used the computer in the living room to put together his Spanish project, went back into his room and made the outline, and only at the end of Sunday asked me to type the final paper to his dictation. Even then, he was totally organized with all his sources, and simply told me what to type. He tried to start one fight with me, then stopped and said, "This break has lasted too long, that's why I'm fighting. Excuse me I have to get to work.

 

Only those who know how this usually works with DS would realize what an incredible, miraculous weekend I had.

 

So here is what I have done besides the GABA that might be helping.

 

1. He had been on risperdone and zoloft 200mg. We tapered him off risperdone due to weight gain and it seems like that made the wheels come off for him. But I thought (and the psychiatrist didn't) that the risperdone had been hiding the bad effects of the zoloft. So a couple of weeks ago I started cutting the Zoloft very slowly. Now he is at 150 mg.

 

2. I had stopped magnesium for some reason and I started it again.

 

Those and the GABA are the only suspects. I really like this new child and want to encourage him, so I am afraid to change anything even though there are still substantial gains to be made. Any thoughts?

 

 

[LNN]

My vote would be to not rock the boat for a few weeks and just savor it. Then, if things change or if you want to tweak once school is out, follow your gut on what to change first. But only change one thing at a time. Sounds like you have a better compass than the psychiatrist. So happy for you!!

[pr40]

we had a similar sudden amazing result with methylcobalamin b12. it calmed and focused both kids. unfortunately, the effect did not last for us. what did last is more modest positive effect in a smaller does -- we started at 1000mcg.

[lynn]

Thanks PR40, did you have any indications that your kids were sensitive to methyl donors? Also, if you started at 1000 mcg, what did you drop down to?

 

LLM--I agree, not only am I not rocking the boat, I am lying on the bottom of it holding my breath! I am afraid (since I have seen it so often) of the honeymoon period leading to horrible results as some other unexpected mechanism kicks in.

 

I guess my question is this: Everytime I see GABA mentioned on the boards, there seems to be a lot of unrest and feeling that it does not good. Has it actually helped anyone? For a long time? Or is it another thing that just helps for a day or two and then makes things worse?

[mkur]

My son is sleep dependent - has major trouble functioning without it. He has always been a long sleeper - 12+ hours - always told this is a normal variance. I have recently learned that this is not normal and is called hypersomnia - which can also be an autoimmune problem. We did the adderall (to wake him up) and clonidine (to put him to sleep) for years - nothing changed. Sleep has been linked to bp and lots of other problems. I have been researching online about hypersomnia and gaba and thought you might like to view the following ytube videos

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbS-wMfHiCI (author has many more videos available)

 

Maybe the gaba is waking him up - getting rid of the brain fog. I'm so happy you got to see your son's true self and hope this is the answer. Best wishes.

[LNN]

Most of what I've read is that Gaba supplements may not make it to the brain, may not cross the BBB. But rather, the Gaba supplement may calm the gut. I don't really know. A few threads have discussed the wonders of Melissa, which is Gaba-ergic and supposed to increase gaba in the brain. I tried it for my son with unpleasant results, have no idea why. Is a Gaba supplement a methyl donor? IDK, but I set it aside.

 

But everyone has a different response. Whether the Gaba is helping his brain or his gut or his little pinky, if it helps, enjoy it. Like you, I've seen things peeter out and know how depressing that is. You can also look into foods that are supposed to help increase gaba. Scroll down to the middle of the heartfixer document for a full discussion, but here's an excerpt: http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#Glutamate%20%E2%80%93%20GABA%20Imbalance%20%C3%9E%20Excitotoxicity

We can restore glutamate-GABA balance by:

1. Addressing CBS up regulation/BHMT down regulations to decrease alpha-ketoglutarate production.
2. Decreasing intake of food precursors of glutamate (see list below).
3. Supplementing with GABA
4. Copper inhibits conversion of glutamate to GABA by glutamate decarboxylase so avoid copper excess, or better stated, an imbalance between copper and zinc.
5. Calcium is involved in glutamate toxicity, so supplement with magnesium to keep calcium in check.

 

Interesting point in #5 and your re-starting magnesium....

[queenmother]

I will give up my favorite high heels before I give up GABA and magnesium for my daughter! (And I looooove shoes!!!!)

GABA is the single most helpful thing that we've done (along with hydroxyB12) as it definitely helps with anxiety and sleep....for all of us.

GABA is not a methyl donor but is sometimes combined with theanine which IS a methyl donor. That's why I always suggest pure GABA.

(Zen is a very popular product that is mostly GABA but NOT if you have a COMT++ or +- as it contains theanine, also.) Magnesium, as LLM stated, helps to counter the calcium but is also helpful with the neurotransmitters, like dopamine. The only thing of which to be vigilant is in giving too much GABA as it will make kids 'mushy' and weepy and 'out of it.' At the correct dose, however, it eases the anxiety and blocks some of the glutamate receptors that get over-excited from glutamates. There are glutamate receptors all over the body but I truly believe that some GABA does cross the BBB because there are obvious signs of it's effectiveness, at least we see it here.

Lynne, we have been using GABA for almost 3 years, off and on, mostly on. When things would get better, I would sometimes slack off on GABA/mag because I did not realize just how helpful it was. Once I made the connection, well, I don't slack off on it anymore.

Glad you've dosed down on the pharms. Lay back and enjoy your cruise!

QM

[lynn]

MKUR--My son has always had weird sleep issues--he will be actually talking and fall asleep, but it takes him forever to fall asleep at night. I always thought that it was just an avoidance thing, but maybe I'm wrong. Very interesting.

 

QM--what form of magnesium do you use. Magnesium citrate seems too laxative, don't know what else is absorbed best without messing things up.

 

LLM--I have also started zinc again, maybe a few months ago. This may also be factoring in.

 

Still all good. Turning blue from breath holding, but still holding breath!

[Dedee]

For those of you who are using GABA, how much do you use? I have bought some but it will probably be a while before adding it because we are working on adding a couple of other things first. Also, on the issue of Magnesium....wanted you get some opinions. I had a practitioner tell me once that Magnesium binds and inactivates other supplements so I should make sure to give it away from antibiotics and other supplements. Has anyone else ever heard this? I have heard others say they give it with other meds just fine. I would love to know because I have a really hard time fitting it in with all the other things I am giving. If I could give it with regular supplements that would be great. It's hard to get my daughter to take all the things she needs to. She complains constantly. Appreciate any feedback.

 

Dedee

[lynn]

Re: magnesium--there are a lot of antibiotics that you should not give with any minerals including magnesium and zinc. Not all antibiotics are affected, though, and I don't have the list.

 

Re :GABA --I am giving something like 1/4 or 1/5th of a 500 mg capsule. I never give the full strength starting out because DS is a sensitive reactor and I have had amazingly bad reactions so I want to keep the damage as small as possible!

[queenmother]

Dr. Y recommends magnesium citrate because the glycine in magnesium glycinate is a fair weather friend and can actually increase glutamate excitability. A little glycine is good but, depending on your genetics and your methylation block, it is a little risky. 50-100 mg of mag citrate shouldn't be too laxative but every kid is different. Definitely give minerals at a different time than abx. We find that zinc is best in the morning and mag citrate is best before bedtime. It is tricky getting everything in...probiotics at least 2 hours after antibiotics, minerals 2 hours after antibiotics, methyl donors early in the day...OY!!!!

My daughter just turned 16 and we worked up from a sprinkle to 1/2 cap of GABA which is about 200mg. I have read that some people give 3-7 caps of GABA daily- which I can't imagine but again, every kid is different. We go low and slow on everything and the GABA/mag at those doses work very well for us.

QM

[LNN]

Queen Mother - I didn't know that about glycinate - I've been giving mag glycinate for a long time. Getting ready to re-order so this comes at a good time. Going to have to re-read Yasko's book - last time I read it was before I had all our results back and some of the finer points were lost on me. But only 50-100mg? The RDA for magnesium is 200mg for kids and 400mg for adults. How come so low?

 

Are you giving magnesium and zinc apart for a reason or just how it works out? I give both together (some zinc in a.m. and some zinc at bedtime with mag because two of us have pyroluria and need extra high doses of zinc in multiple doses). I also give probiotics at bedtime so they can go thru the stomach when acid is lower and hopefully sit in the bowels a little longer. Antibiotics are thankfully out of the picture at the moment, but I'd give those at breakfast and dinner.

 

Dee - the only advise I've come across re: magnesium is to not give with certain abx, as Lynn said, and that it's less effective to take at the same time as calcium (which makes you wonder why cal/mag is such a common combo supplement).

 

Regarding glycine and gaba, I found this article pretty helpful, if a little technical. http://www.acnp.org/g4/gn401000008/ glycine is apparently one of those things that's both good and bad, depending on where in the brain playground it's playing.

[Rachel]

After reading this old post, I wanted to bring it up again. Is anyone still using GABA? I have gradually been increasing my son's over the last several months. He has only been taking this at night. It just made him too sleepy in the daytime.

 

He is taking 500mgs at night only. He is smiling more and will even laugh occasionally. I also increased his P5P dosage a couple of weeks ago. I'm thinking this is a good combination for him right now but I will be watching him closely. GABA seems to be helping with the addition of the P5P supplement.

 

Edit: I found a blog by a natural path on GABA and found some interesting information.

 

http://www.vitalityandwellness.com.au/health-blog/low-gaba-levels-increase-gaba-naturally

Edited July 9, 2014 by rachel