phosphatidylcholine

[LNN]

I've been giving DS lecithin because it contains phosphatidylcholine (helps memory and other neuro functions) and may help strengthen the BBB. Thinking about opting for the more expensive stuff that is pure phosphatidylcholine. Does anyone have any experiences to share? Dosage info for DS10 who is 85lbs?

[trggirl]

We just finished a trial of Phosphotidylcholine. I only gave it for one week and I can honestly say I don't know if it helped or not. Sometimes I thought I was seeing improvement in focus and other times I thought it was worse. It was definitely not a miracle drug like Amantadine is for us. I may try again at a later date but for now I don't want to continue giving anything unless I know it is helping without a doubt.

[LNN]

Thanks for the feedback. What dose/brand did you use?

[trggirl]

We used the 1200mg softgels. I had to guesstimate, but I gave about 1/2 of one every morning.

[smartyjones]

I've been giving DS lecithin because it contains phosphatidylcholine (helps memory and other neuro functions) and may help strengthen the BBB. Thinking about opting for the more expensive stuff that is pure phosphatidylcholine. Does anyone have any experiences to share? Dosage info for DS10 who is 85lbs?

 

 

i don't know -- you might want to contact LLM -- she's the resident expert who seems to know all this sort of stuff.

 

 

 

sorry we can't be there the same way for you -- perhaps a pina colada - ?!

[momcap]

I've been giving DS lecithin because it contains phosphatidylcholine (helps memory and other neuro functions) and may help strengthen the BBB. Thinking about opting for the more expensive stuff that is pure phosphatidylcholine. Does anyone have any experiences to share? Dosage info for DS10 who is 85lbs?

 

We have used Natural Factors 420 mg softgels (1200mg lecithin & 420mg phosphatidylcholine). You can swallow them, or poke a hole and squeeze it into a smoothie or whatever else. I can't say I really saw any difference in DS, but he had so many other things going on at once, that I don't think it was a fair trial. I started taking them whenever I felt agitated, and it calmed me down, but that could be placebo effect.

 

Bonus - I think it's also good for liver function.

[LNN]

Smarty - I never underestimate the therapeutic value of a pina colada!! Should I ever again find myself at a PANS or OCD conference, I will happily indulge with anyone willing to talk about brain cells whilst sacrificing a few in the process

 

Trg and Mom, thanks for the input. I have some regular lecithin that contains 170mg of phoshotidylcholine, so perhaps I'll just increase that for a trial before doing anything else. DS is good right now but will be having his first ever neuroeval (thru the school) starting the week after Thanksgiving. Being my neurotic self, I want to do all I can to keep him in this good place (and of course, he always seems to tank just before a standardized test). I should probably just chill and do deep breathing instead.

[norcalmom]

Smarty - I never underestimate the therapeutic value of a pina colada!! Should I ever again find myself at a PANS or OCD conference, I will happily indulge with anyone willing to talk about brain cells whilst sacrificing a few in the process

Our LLMD just started DS on Phodphatidyl Serine. I think ....I LOVE it....just started a few days ago, and DS has made comments on how easy of math was today and how it was easy to understand some other thing too. He told me he thought it was because I brought him a "special" sandwich that day, (appartnetly the usual lunches I make are inedible...) but I have seem some changes in just a few days on this stuff. We'll see if it just a fluke but so far I'm thinking I like it ALOT. I haven't even googled it to see what it is or does, but sounds like similar compound to what you are thinking about and said it was for "neuro transmitter function"..

 

Its a power, we put in a tablespoon applesauce, no taste or grit. The does is 1/2 tsp once per day, but our LLMD wants DS on 2 doses per day (1tsp total) - This is day 3 and first day of giving him the two doses.

[SSS]

Phosphatidylserine- PS 100

 

Very few supplements for dd I will say 'Yes, I noticed a positive effect directly from this',

but this one is on that short list.

 

As you know, we went to Risperadone for the last 6 months after a very dark period- worked for about 3 months- then stopped (no surprise, right?)

During this time, I stopped using PS 100.

Finally got her titrated to tiny dose of risperadone, tomorrow she is off 100%,

and just this morning started PS 100 again.

This is an expensive supplement. I can't tell you technically what it does.

For us, and I do know, believe me and my $cabinets$ full of supplements,

all our kids do not respond the same,

but I swear in the past I notice this calms her, and does reduce brain fog.

I never thought brain fog was an issue with dd (trouble focusing, whatever you want to call it)

until this year at school conference.

Hoping the PS 100 hits a run for us again (and I believe it will, but had to get her off risperadone first)

Anyway, on the side of the bottle, Pure Encapulations PS 100, it says:

'may reduce the risk of dementia in the elderly'

(not FDA endorsed, of course)

 

Sorry so long, xxoo LLM

[rowingmom]

I have been giving DD11 a phosphatidylserine/phosphatidylcholine supplement daily for a long time. We struggled to regain her speech for 4 years after her 15 month MMR vaccination. Our speech therapist was able to use the PROMPT method to retrain her loss of motor control over her facial muscles, but she never sang. No nursery rhymes or children's songs or anything, despite my playing them endlessly on car rides and at home.

 

There was some mention of using phosphatidylserine with children suffering from oral apraxia (to help rebuild the myelin sheath, I think), so I thought I would give it a try. The day after she started the supplement she sang for the first time, perhaps a coincidence, IDK.

 

We stopped phosphatidylserine a few years ago, but I started again with lyme/bart/babesia/PANS treatment (NaturalFactors PS 100, not too pricey at iHerb). Our LLMD just added in phosphatidylcholine (AllergyResearchGroup 385mg) as well.

Edited November 18, 2012 by rowingmom

[mama2alex]

I'm taking Phosphatidyl Choline by BodyBio, 900mg 3 times a week. I'm around 120 lbs. My doctor said it repairs cell membranes and helps with detox. I can't really tell you if its helping me, because I'm now on a number of supplements.

[norcalmom]

looks like it falls into the mitochondiral - sppports all kinds of cells group. Here are a couple things wikipeida says about it -

 

Metabolism

 

Phosphatidylserine is biosynthesized in the body by condensing the amino acid serine with CDP[disambiguation needed]-activated phosphatidic acid.[15] It is also an important precursor of phosphatidylethanolamine and phosphatidylcholine, although in animals the pathway to generate phosphatidylcholine from phosphatidylserine only operates in the liver.[16]

 

Memory and cognition

Early studies of phosphatidylserine distilled the chemical from bovine brain. Modern studies and commercially available products are made from soybeans, because of concerns about mad cow disease. The fatty acids attached to the serine in the soy product are not identical to those in the bovine product, which is also impure.

Preliminary studies in rats indicate that the soy product is at least as effective as that of bovine origin.[2][3]

Later clinical trials in humans found that "a daily supplement of S-PS (soybean derived PS) does not affect memory or other cognitive functions in older individuals with memory complaints."[4]

On May 13, 2003, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration stated "based on its evaluation of the totality of the publicly available scientific evidence, the agency concludes that there is not significant scientific agreement among qualified experts that a relationship exists between phosphatidylserine and reduced risk of dementia or cognitive dysfunction." FDA also stated "of the 10 intervention studies that formed the basis of FDA's evaluation, all were seriously flawed or limited in their reliability in one or more ways." It concludes that "most of the evidence does not support a relationship between phosphatidylserine and reduced risk of dementia or cognitive dysfunction, and that the evidence that does support such a relationship is very limited and preliminary."

FDA gave "qualified health claim" status to phosphatidylserine, stating that, "Consumption of phosphatidylserine may reduce the risk of dementia in the elderly" and "Consumption of phosphatidylserine may reduce the risk of cognitive dysfunction in the elderly."[5]

[edit]Sports nutrition

Phosphatidylserine has been demonstrated to speed up recovery, prevent muscle soreness, improve well-being, and might possess ergogenic properties in athletes involved in cycling, weight training and endurance running. Soy-PS, in a dose dependent manner (400 mg), has been reported to be an effective supplement for combating exercise-induced stress by blunting the exercise-induced increase in cortisol levels.[6] PS supplementation promotes a desirable hormonal balance for athletes and might attenuate the physiological deterioration that accompanies overtraining and/or overstretching.[7] In recent studies, PS has been shown to enhance mood in a cohort of young people during mental stress and to improve accuracy during tee-off by increasing the stress resistance of golfers.[8]

[edit]Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

First pilot studies indicate that PS supplementation might be beneficial for children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.[9][10]

[edit]Safety

 

Traditionally, PS supplements were derived from bovine cortex (BC-PS); however, due to the potential transfer of infectious diseases, soy-derived PS (S-PS) has been established as a potential safe alternative. Soy-derived PS is Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS) and is a safe nutritional supplement for older persons if taken up to a dosage of 200 mg three times daily.[11] Phosphatidylserine has been shown to reduce specific immune response in mice.[12][13]

[edit]Dietary sources

 

PS can be found in meat, but is most abundant in the brain and in innards such as liver and kidney. Only small amounts of PS can be found in dairy products or in vegetables, with the exception of white beans.

[bobh]

I've been looking for a place to post a trial we did with phosphatidylcholine (often abbreviated PPC), and rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd build on this one.  Hope that is ok.

We have been doing a trial with fishoil and PPC for the last couple of months, going on and off it, and recording results.

The idea to use PPC came from a member of another small group that I am in.  That person used very high doses of it (with fishoil) last year and found that whenever they were out of it, their daughter got worse.  So based on that experience, we decided to try similar (but not quite as high) doses for our PANS son.

The photo attached is a boxplot (aka a box and whisker plot) of two sets of results of how much soap our son used (which is a measurement of his OCD) when on or off PPC.  I had to split the results into two data sets (days he had showers, and days he didn't), because on the days that he had showers, his soap use was very different - sky-high on account of the shower process. In the shower, he had to have soap suds on every square inch of his body, while on the non-shower days, soap was just up to his elbows a couple of times a day, typically.

If you are not familiar with box plots, you can read about them here: http://www.wellbeingatschool.org.nz/…/understanding-and-int… .

The underlying data is not ideally behaved for analysis, but the results are nevertheless statistically significant (according to something called a t-test). That means that we are fairly sure there is some positive effect with PPC, it doesn't necessarily mean that the effect itself is very significant.  Note that the scale on the graphs make it look like PPC helps more than it does.  He is still using 20-30cm of soap in the shower when on PPC - but that is a lot better than when he's not on PPC, so we'll take that.

One downside is that this treatment costs approximately $3 a day the way we did it (high dose and taken with fish oil).  Just because it seemed to work for our son (and that other parent) doesn't mean it will work for anyone else.