Spelling

[dcmom]

Hi everyone- as most of you know I have two daughters age 12 and 9 diagnosed with pandas 3.5 years ago. The good news is that (knock on wood) they are doing exceptionally well. Both are excelling academically and socially, and living life with very little or no anxiety/ocd. Whew! (we still do see reaction to illness, but mild, thankfully, in the last year or so).

 

So- my oldest is the one that I am going to talk about now. She does have a 504 plan, which is relatively empty, and really not needed- but we have it in the event we do. She is an incredibly gifted student at a very challenging middle school. She is engaged, smart and puts a lot of effort in. She had a wonderful year last year, straight A's and lauded by her literacy teacher as one of her very best students.

 

Well, this year so far the literacy teacher is a lot tougher. She has come down on my dd very hard (in terms of grading in class assignments) for spelling. My dd is a very poor speller, and she herself would acknowledge this. In my gut, I see this as a remnant from pandas. In 2nd grade she was one of two kids in her class that the teacher made a separate advanced spelling list for- she could spell anything. In third grade she contracted pandas, and by the end of fourth (when I had time to actually LOOK at the schoolwork after 2 diagnosed with pandas) her spelling was really bad. Her spelling is so far off of her academic abilities in every other area. My other younger daughter, who also does well in school, also has a lot of spelling issues.

 

So here is my question- what would you do? I am planning to wait it out a couple of months, and as long as it looks like dd can maintain a B in her class (even with marking off for spelling) I will stay out of it. However, if things are looking worse than that- I really think she should be allowed to use a dictionary in class (maybe she is and just doesn't know?).

 

Part of me thinks if the spelling issue is from pandas (disgraphia?) then she should be accommodated with being able to use a dictionary for in class work. The other part of me says, this is life, as long as she will pass she should learn to deal.

 

Thoughts?

 

Also, any thoughts on improving spelling for a seventh grader?

 

Thanks!!

[JAG10]

Hi dcmom,

 

Our dd's are very close in ages and remission. My 7th grader is a terrible speller, but always aced spelling tests; same with my 4th grader. Neither girl spells well in composition. It occurred to me in composition, both girls' "default position" is to spell phonetically words they do not know automatically. Whenever I cue them to visualize the word in print in their minds, their spelling improves tremendously. Both girls have strong visual memories, but for whatever reason, they default to phonetic spelling unless I cue them to visualize. I'm hoping with practice, this strategy will become integrated.

 

My personal opinion is that deducting points for spelling (outside of a final draft) is petty and is in no way reflective of quality learning. I would suggest that the teacher needs to provide your daughter with compensatory strategies for spelling to be freely utilized or, better yet, get over it outside of final drafts.

 

Jill

[Christianmom]

 

So here is my question- what would you do? I am planning to wait it out a couple of months, and as long as it looks like dd can maintain a B in her class (even with marking off for spelling) I will stay out of it. However, if things are looking worse than that- I really think she should be allowed to use a dictionary in class (maybe she is and just doesn't know?).

Thanks!!

 

I think this is a good plan. When my oldest (who is now in college and a fine speller) was struggling with spelling in elementary school, I went to a friend with a doctorate degree in Education for help. (My daughter is also gifted academically like yours.) He told me not to worry about it, that spelling is not a sign of intelligence or academic abilities. (He was right.) He said his mother used to tease him that he was the only person she knew that could spell the same word wrongly two different ways in the same paragraph. He is a brilliant man with merit scholarship-winning children. He went on to play a big part in writing the Pennsylvania home-school law. Apparently his spelling skills didn't hold him back.

 

So I guess my point is to try not to worry about it. Even if it doesn't resolve, your daughter will do fine. Just hope you can get this teacher to see that.

 

In terms of suggestions for helping her to spell better, with my children that have struggled (three out of four, though all spell well now), it has helped to give them weekly spelling lists into high school (instead of stopping in elementary or middle school). I use a program called Spelling Power because it has a lot of review in it. There is something about continuing the study of spelling into the maturer years of high school that seems to solidify things for them. Also, the more a child reads, generally the better they are at spelling. So you may want to encourage her to read more. Doesn't have to be hard reading, just reading. A poor speller has a problem visualizing how a word is spelled. So the more they see correct spelling in print the better. Also, encouraging your daughter to e-mail will help her spelling.

 

So glad your children are doing so well otherwise!

[MomWithOCDSon]

Hey DC Mom --

 

We had a similar PANDAS response to spelling, actually in the middle of 2nd grade; DS went from being an aces speller and reader to a kid who seemingly overnight forgot everything! He's regained the reading skills (and then some), thank goodness, but like your DD, the spelling really never has come back within his complete grasp.

 

Question: how is your DD with phonics? Do they teach phonics in the cirriculum, and is this how she's supposed to figure out spelling (along with the general grammar rules like "silent e" that she's no doubt been exposed to)?

 

After mid-year 2nd grade, phonics stopped making sense to my DS; it was like a switch flipped. So he'd sound out words all day long, but he couldn't string them together to be coherent words, nor could he spell them out from the sounds. I don't know if that's dysgraphia, but it definitely seems like a processing thing to me.

 

Anyway, we found this great book that I've recommended a time or two here before, but I keep seeing applications for it that go beyond the obvious: "Right-Brained Childred in a Left Brained World" by Jeffrey Freed. The book is geared and titled toward ADD/ADHD, but it really goes a lot wider than that. Freed's basic premise is that our kids are increasingly right-brained, and this means that they are whole-to-part, rather than part-to-whole, that they are visual more so than auditory learners, and that they frequently have fabulous memories which are sometimes more reliable allies in learning than are the more old-fashioned, "left-brained" techniques like phonics.

 

Anyway, he has several specific techniques and exercises in the book that we found helpful, but in terms of spelling/reading, it comes down to something pretty simple: give up trying to "sound it out" and just memorize it! One to three runs through the spelling/vocabulary list, at most, and a right-brained kid will know how to spell that word FOREVER! It's proven to be pretty true in DS's case!

 

I would also agree with Jill that taking points off for spelling leans toward the petty and may actually be the bastion of an unimaginative (dare I suggest "lazy"?) teacher. Unless, of course, she's granting your DD extra points for her creativity, expansive grasp of the subject matter and/or mature-beyond-her-years reasoning skills!

 

Other than supporting DD at home when she encounters a task that involves spelling, I'd probably lay low for just a bit . . . see if this grading sensibility is really negatively impacting her. If not, well, then she knows that the world doesn't always run the way you or she would like it to, but she can get by just fine nonethless. If so, then I'd probably find a way to incorporate it within the 504, though I'm not sure what sort of "proof" you'd be expected to provide along those lines.

[dcmom]

Thanks for all of the quick replies! It is always so nice to hear from those who have had similar experiences.

 

Christianmom- I looked into power spelling and think I am going to get it and use it for both my dd's. Younger dd has spelling in school, so will use it with her in the summer- with the older one- we will start now!!

 

Nancy- thanks for your insight, and I am weirdly comforted to know you saw the same with your son (no- I am not obsessive, blaming everything on pandas). I did some research on dysgraphia and it does include spelling issues. It also includes handwriting (and while my dd's do fine in that dept, at one point they both had the best handwriting in the class, to now average handwriting at best). The funny thing is, my dd IS an auditory learner- BUT she has not had formal "spelling" since third grade- so no spelling training since her spelling took the hit. She CAN memorize spelling ( in Spanish, let's say, for a quiz)- but it is like her base is gone, all of those years of spelling were wiped out. I am not sure if she sounds it out- I guess so. They don't have "spelling"- their English class (double period) is run much more like what I think of as a high school course- reading novels, interpreting, writing essays, etc. plus grammar.

 

I agree that spelling is petty, and her last year teacher told me the same- that spelling is not a mark of intelligence or academic aptitude whatsoever. Ggggrrr- I can see my daughters engagement and motivation evaporating rapidly with this teacher.

 

So- we will work on spelling, and I will keep my mouth shut as long as there is no impending disaster!

[airial95]

My daughter's school uses a website called spellingcity.com It has lots of spelling and vocabulary activities. The school has a membership so her weekly lists are posted there for her to practice, but individual students can access the various games and activities as well.

 

My daughter is only in 1st grade, and doesn't have too much trouble with spelling - however, she gets very frustrated having to do the different "practice" activities that I have to sign off on every night for her weekly tests. This website gives her a couple of options that she enjoys and minimizes the fight...might help with some of the visual learners too.

[kos_mom]

DD had spelling problems as well--though I think this was due more to whole language reading instruction. Luckily she did learn to read and is an avid reader. I worked with her for a while on spelling with AVKO, which is used by many homeschoolers. Her spelling did get better though she quit early. This is a low investment program from a time point of view, and it's cheap as well. Basically, you give a spelling test every day--the words are chosen based on pattern and the point is to imprint the patterns. The first lesson, for example, begins: in, skin, napkin, grin... Given the order the words are given in, the student has a high chance for getting the spelling right each time.

 

I used the adult version ($13)--you are supposed to be able to get through it in a year and I wanted her to get through the basic word patterns on a supplemental basis but homeschoolers would probably go for the children's version as it would be a part of their curriculum. Here is the link:

 

http://avko.org/ssadults.html

[Christianmom]

DD had spelling problems as well--though I think this was due more to whole language reading instruction. Luckily she did learn to read and is an avid reader. I worked with her for a while on spelling with AVKO, which is used by many homeschoolers. Her spelling did get better though she quit early. This is a low investment program from a time point of view, and it's cheap as well. Basically, you give a spelling test every day--the words are chosen based on pattern and the point is to imprint the patterns. The first lesson, for example, begins: in, skin, napkin, grin... Given the order the words are given in, the student has a high chance for getting the spelling right each time.

 

I used the adult version ($13)--you are supposed to be able to get through it in a year and I wanted her to get through the basic word patterns on a supplemental basis but homeschoolers would probably go for the children's version as it would be a part of their curriculum. Here is the link:

 

http://avko.org/ssadults.html

I have heard good things about this program as well. You may prefer it over Spelling Power. I have been homeschooling for a long time and am basically too cheap to buy new curriculum unless I absolutely have to. All extra money goes towards PANDAS/lyme treatment for my son and helping our older college kids.

 

I have used Spelling Power for 14 years and have the original version without games. I just give a spelling pre-test on Monday, they practice 5-10 minutes per day, and I give a test on Friday. Old-fashioned, but it has worked for us.

 

The program mentioned here is much more popular than Spelling Power and will probably be more fun to use. I think the key is to stay with it as long as necessary. I originally picked the Spelling Power program because it taught spelling through high school (eleventh grade) and no other program was doing that.

 

One thing I do. If they get the pre-test completely correct or only miss one word, they get the week off. Rarely happens at the high school level, but it does give them something to shoot for.

 

Another thing that has helped my chidren is for them to try to put into syllables any word they are having trouble spelling. It forces them to think through each sound they hear. You may have to teach them how to put words into syllables first though. (Basically, every time a vowel sound changes, it is a new syllable.)

[Dedee]

I think in the grand scheme of things, it really is petty. My son's hand writing is horrible and has never gotten better after his biggest flair. Finally one of his teachers told me to stop worring about it and leave him alone. He is good in everything else. That was years ago. As my son tells me all the time....College is about computers! 2 words for your daughter.....Spell check!

[EAMom]

Hi DCmom,

 

I haven't read all the replies. My PANDAS dd (now 7th grade) is a terrible speller. She always has been (not sure how much of it is long standing PANDAS--also PANDAS that "struck" at the wrong developmental time). In her 504 her teachers aren't supposed to deduct points for spelling (unless it is specifically a spelling test)--that is her accommodation.

 

As she gets older, the spelling issues are becoming less important. Thank goodness for computers and spell check.

 

By the way, she is a very good writer (content) and a voracious reader (including adult/young adult books). Aside from spelling, her other problem is with math.

 

I'm not sure if the dictionary in class is a good accomodation. My fear is that 1) she might not want to use it, she'll stand out and be different from the other kids 2) it might slow her down if she is spending all her time looking up how to spell things 3) my own PANDAS dd doesn't always know which words she is spelling wrong (in order to look them up). If you do decide to go the dictionary route, you might consider one of the electronic spell checking ones http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/11072581/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_3_last

 

BTW...my dd's handwriting is getting better. Not sure if puberty helped that?

Edited October 2, 2012 by EAMom

[smartyjones]

Dcmom – may not be related – just a thought . . . when yourdd was in exacerbation, did you notice issues with auditory processing? My ds seems to have issues in and out ofexacerbation, of course, much worse in; slight and occasional out.

 

I wonder if that could be at play with either how she'hears' the words or how she did 'hear' them when she was/should have been learning to spell them or learning some basics of spelling.

 

DS8 is younger so not doing as intense work as your dd but is an excellent speller – but had serious anxiety over spelling tests last year and this year is choosing only 5 words from a list of 28 that he can verbally spell correctly. (could be an easy way to show off and getextra points but he resists – mostly writing issues but also he doesn't want teacher to know what he can really do) He likes to play around with silly spelling ofwords he knows and words that sound silly with just a slight adjustment. So, although he can spell correctly, spelling is a big issue for him.

 

One example that comes to mind was last year when we were watching the Weather Channel about the hurricane. They said "dryer air should be coming in"; he said something like "what's dry arare". This wasn't playing around, he heard it that way.