For Claire

[Guest Lulu]

Hi Claire!

 

Can you clarify something for me? In an earlier post you mentioned something about urine testing for heavy metals but that it brought about problems with yeast (or something like that...). Can you explain? My son will have the urine test for heavy metals (the dr. said that he would take a pill for the few days prior - does that sound right?) but I'm guessing that he may have a yeast problem.

 

Also, he is on amoxicillan for strep (and he was on it recently for a sinus infection a few weeks ago, ugh) but his tics seem to skyrocket. Any advice on that?

 

Thanks, Claire.

 

Lulu

[Claire]

Lulu,

 

This is such a tough one, because it is controversial even among the alternative doctors.

 

The urine challenge seems to be one of the more accurate tests, but it involves taking DMSA to pull out the metals for the test. Dr. Walsh says that DMSA also pulls out zinc (it pulls out all metals indiscriminately), which makes things worse since so many kids have low zinc. Our DAN doctor says your antioxidants need to be up first. Also, DMSA is notorious for causing yeast issues, so Dr. McCandless says make sure the gut is healthy before DMSA. However, the jury is out on whether one DMSA usage for the challenge is enough to do harm. Well, the DAN consensus recommends DMSA in general, so one session shouldn't be bad right??

 

Andy's child did the urine challenge with no issues. My neighbor did DMSA for one day and ended up with horrible yeast. I think Jennifer's child was fine with the urine challenge. I asked Dara once if her child's symptom increase coincided with the urine challenge, but I think there were so many variables that it would likely be impossible to tell.

 

But the other mercury methods aren't great in terms of false negatives. Hair tests are notorious for false negatives, since this same children don't excrete metals, so it doesn't show in their hair. Our doctor did the blood test instead, and since it was positive, we could feel comfortable treating. The issue is more what to do if the blood test is negative, given that it could just mean the metals are settled in the tissues. Dr. Walsh didn't like any of the 3 tests, but said he looks at copper and ceruloplasm, but I have no idea what he was talking about. Some say measuring mercury in fecal matter is good.

 

I would like us to do a urine challenge someday, but want to wait for the antioxidant levels (per Spectracell.com's 5000 test) to be higher, and for the zinc levels to be back in line, per the labcorp.com test. And for yeast to be lower. I will likely test it on myself first.

 

This is the order we did, based on our DAN doctor and later Pfeiffer's input.

 

Blood test for metals (Great Smokies)

www.spectracell.com for antioxidants

www.greatplainslaboratory.com OAT test for glutathione reading and yeast

www.labcorp.com for serum levels of zinc

 

If blood test is high in metals, then the supplementation from the 3 tests should mobilize the metals. (Usually selenium is added, even if no deficiency exists).

 

If the blood test is normal (maybe false negative), and the 3 tests show deficiencies, then supplementing to treat those deficiencies will still mobilize metals if they are an issue as part of whatever healing they do, so you don't lose time. Our doctor says the antioxidants are the bodies natural way of eliminating medals, thus his preference for them over chelation. Dr. Walsh said on his site that he thinks the chelation success is due in great part to the coinciding use of antioxidants.

 

So, unfortunately Lulu, this is very complicated and because of all the disagreement among doctors, you and your doctor need to make the call! My post in my METALS, GLUTATHIONE, etc.. thread (plus the chelation thread) has links with the trade-offs for you to get a fuller story.

 

Again, someday I want the urine challenge--from my reading, this appears to be most agreed upon as the best method. I want to make sure that the lower blood level readings don't mean that the mercury has just settled into the tissues. Since symptoms are better (less photosensitivity)

 

On the other hand, I don't feel the need for chelation because Pfeiffer and our DAN doctor both say our current approach (zinc, selenium, Vitamin C, and glutathione lotion) all will pull out metals.

 

I would done the urine challenge already, if the blood test was negative and our DAN doctor recommended it. Also, if this was the only test my doctor believed and would begin treatment based on, then I would do it. But even the urine challenge can give false negatives, especially the first round when other metals tend to get pulled first.

 

Claire

 

edited: I recommend doing a google search on "urine challenge" + mercury + "side affects" (or maybe dangers)

 

Here is something to add to the other link I posted on comparing the methods:

 

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:YKpYq...2B+serum+&hl=en

 

"Everyone mentions the challenge, or stimulated, urine test for mercury, although your specific techniques vary. What about other methods of detecting mercury, plain urine, packed red cells, serum, or hair?"

 

I try to honor copyright and not repost the detailed response--which favors the urine challeng, but I found this interesting:

 

"As for hair, we have found clinically – if there is even a small amount of mercury showing up in the hair - a provocation test invariably tests positive."

 

 

Also, this was interesting--some here have done these methods:

 

"Does anyone rely on electrodermal testing or muscle testing?

 

"Dr. Rozema: It is my understanding that these two methodologies are very operator dependant and could lead to spurious results. Some people say that in the hands of a skillful operator, the results can be quite accurate. It needs to be compared to challenge urine testing for mercury. "

[Claire]

Lulu,

 

As for tics skyrocketing from amoxycillin, then I would have 4 things I would suspect:

 

1. The amoxycillin isn't the right antibiotic and isn't correcting the strep, which can make things worse of course. Is your child's throat getting better?

 

2. The amoxycillin is mixed with all that artificial flavoring in a liquid and your child is sensitive to it.

 

3. The illness in general is making the tics worse. (But I don't see how it would get worse AFTER the antiobiotics were started, if this were the case.

 

4. The round of antibiotics just killed more good flora and yeast levels are way up.

 

Sorry I can't narrow it down for you, but to prevent/deal with #4 I recommend nystatin and probiotics during any round of antiobiotics, if yeast is an issue. If you don't know, then it is tougher to assess--but I would ask your doctor about capryllic acid (non prescription) as an antifungal--I read it doesn't harm a healthy digestive track. Of course the probiotics are taken 2 hours after the antibiotics, or the antibiotics will just kill the good bacteria anyway.

 

Claire

[Guest Lulu]

Thank the Lord for you, Claire, you are a wealth of information!! I will bring all the metal issues in question to my doctor. We are going to a chiropractor.

 

About the probiotic and yeast, I didn't know to give that 2 hours after the medicine, so thank you again. I'm giving him (100 lbs) the Metagenics Ultra FLora Plus DF (7.5 billion (!) acidophilus & bifidobacteria). He's getting 500 mg. amox. three times a day. Should I give the probiotic after each dose or just once a day??

 

Oh how I long for the simple days.......

 

Happy Easter!

 

Lisa

[Claire]

Hi Lulu/Lisa

 

My DAN doctor says to start with one dose of probiotics a day during a round of antibiotics (again, 2 hours after the antibiotic), then to build to 2 doses if your child can tolerate the one dose just fine. The one you have sounds just fine, my son weighs less than that and ours had more. Just watch for symptoms and adjust accordingly. For some supplements I dump 1/2 a capsule and close it up again.

 

For some, I guess even one dose can cause yeast die-off and symptoms, thus his caution.

 

I was told that probiotics during antibiotics is a good idea, whether or not there is a yeast issue. In fact, our mainstream Ear Nose Throat doctor said they are good on a daily basis for everyone. I know some do yogurt. We have milk issues so we do the capsules. The yogurt required so much sugar (whether natural or no) for our family to tolerate it that I figured it wasn't for us anyway, since yeast thrive on sugar, our doctor told us to minimize all kinds.

 

Houston Nutriceuticals has an enzyme called No-fenol that Dr. Houston says is good for killing the outer layer of the yeast.

 

Your welcome, and thanks for the kind words.

 

Happy Easter, and I hope things improve.

 

Claire

[Guest Lulu]

Claire,

 

Thanks AGAIN. What's the story about yeast die-off and subsequent symptoms?

 

I am SO hopeful about things improving. Of course it's only bothering me and not my son. We went to a chiropractor and will begin adjustments tomorrow (he has many areas that need tweaking apparently) and will do lab-work on Thursday. Now I will really have a doctor leading us. Our other one wasn't really on board with helping the tic issues. She does want to do the heavy metal testing at some point. What I really feel will be helpful is their analysis and help tweaking his diet and giving him a personal supplement program.

 

I do have to say that one thing that has resulted out of this is a growing compassion in me and a good model of it for my kids. It was so easy to look at someone (I'm embarassed to admit) and just think "they're wierd". Now I look at them and realize that they most likely can't help what they're doing and most likely don't like it that they do it either. Sorry to say it took me 40 years to really learn that but the Lord is still working on me!

 

Lisa

[Andy]

There is a ton of information in these postings that I will have to give a longer read in order to fully absorb. I think I should add that my son so far is under the DMPS IV treatments with glutathione. This treatment by-passes the stomach for the most part so yeast is not an issue with it. It is more controversial then the DMSA treatment. Glutathione lotion and a host of other things are also included with our plan of detox. When I get home I will make a complete posting of the full treatment. Sorry I did not get to post over the weekend but my wife started to work the weekends to help pay for all of our medical bills and I was to tired to post afterwards.

 

 

"On the other hand, I don't feel the need for chelation because Pfeiffer and our DAN doctor both say our current approach (zinc, selenium, Vitamin C, and glutathione lotion) all will pull out metals", Claire.

 

I find this very interesting Claire for it is also part of our detox program and it is the part that I am most comfortable about.

[kim]

http://www.cfs-recovery.org/mercury.htm

 

Claire,

 

I just scanned this, thought there might be something of interest here since you mentioned having fillings removed.

 

Kim

[Guest Guest_efgh]

Claire

 

You mentioned you give iron supplement to your son once in a while. does your multivitamin contain iron also or do you give a separate iron supplement. The multi that I give my son has very minimal iron too and was hence curious..

 

Claire, have you given DT vaccination recently for your son - what is your view on that with regard to tics?

 

thanks

[Claire]

We don't do a multivite, but give each individually. I would love to do one someday, but the multivites always duplicate the things we are asked to supplement.

 

So he has no other supplemental iron source other than the 2x/week I give him at the RDA levels. I have the conflicting research on some having problems with low iron and others with too much iron. His most recent hair test shows him at the high end of normal, so I assume he is okay.

 

There is a fingernail 'test' for iron too. Ah, those telltale fingernails. You look at the nail bed above the white half moons and it should be slightly pinkish, not beige. Or you can pull down the lower eyelid and look inside the lid and it should be pinkish not beige. Easiest to do when comparing to someone with normal iron. Even so, I wouldn't supplement based on this. My husband's looked awful and colorless compared to my son and I and his tests showed normal. Jennifer knows more about iron though and conflicting test results.

 

 

Kim,

 

If you are reading this thread, Pfeiffer's paperwork called '90-150' the optimal level, and said he should be at 120--in the middle of the optimal level. This may be just their medical opinion based on their practice--though after treating 20,000 children, I give them some credibility. I do know that our DAN doctor in general says that antioxidants should be above the middle of the range for these kids, so that is somewhat consistant (zinc functions as an antioxidant). But maybe Pfeiffer just differs from the norm on what is 'adequate', and some feel that 76 is normal.

 

Maybe your doctor can call Labcorp, as Labcorp won't answer direct questions from patients like most other labs (I tried myself for something else).

[Guest Guest_efgh]

Claire

 

Which test did you take for your son to determine iron deficiency?

 

Alison, how about you?

 

Thanks.

[Guest Guest_efgh]

Claire,

 

Have you given DT vaccination recently for your son - what is your view on

that with regard to tics?

 

Which test did you take for your son to determine iron deficiency?

 

Alison, how about you?

 

 

thanks

[Claire]

efgh

 

Looking at my test results, we did the Doctor's Data hair test to show normal iron levels, so I figured I am giving him just the right amount. Labcorp.com test includes red blood cell count which I think may indirectly indicate it (it was normal).

 

Jennifer is the real expert here, I would post to her. [she understands how it can be too high yet not absorbed properly I think] I am curious what Alison did. I know our doctor tested this for my husband at our local lab--they test for anemia all the time. I will try to ask Pfeiffer this week also in case we should do extra testing to be sure. Sorry I don't have a definitive test for you, since I think it is good to have one.

 

I did the DT vaccine well before I knew about any of this. Our next DT vaccine isn't for due 3 years. Don't know how I would feel now--I would have to ask our DAN doctor. I know he wanted us to delay the Hepatatis B vaccine until our son's immune system was better, but then we found out our son had been given it already--years ago.

 

Claire

[ad_ccl]

efgh,

 

We always found out about low iron through routine blood work. I had my older two checked a few times over the years due to their terrible eating habits, when I would tell the doctor at the yearly check ups I was concerned about their diet the iron was always the test I was sent to do. Now that I know what I know, I realize how much more they were becoming deficient in.

 

Speaking of vaccines, I have never had a second thought about them but now I am worried, my middle son ( no tics) is going for his 4 year check up on Friday and will be getting his vaccine, I think sometimes they give the 4yr and 5yr at the same time, but you can also spread it out over the year, I will definitely opt to spread it out.

[Guest Guest_efgh]

Thanks Claire and Alison

 

Claire, my naturopath feels that DT vaccine is ok to be given and does not much trigger tics or any neurological issues. BUT i am still not sure.. I believe this forum more than him!!!!! - anyway, can you please do me a favour by asking your DAN doctor again on DT VACCINE specifically and tics.. Can you update me on what he says as a second opinion for me ..... My son is so stable now and hence I am more worried.. Your help would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Thanks.