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Cristo

What does immune modulating effect mean?

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Depends in what context it is used. On this forum, we usually talk about the immunomodulating effect of azithromycin. Azithromycin has been found to shift the Thelper cell maturation from Th1 to Th2. This means that it changes the cytokine generation and targets intracellular antigens.

 

EDITED to fix Th1 to Th2

 

Th1-Th2.png

What does immune modulating effect mean?

Edited by Buster

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Wow...Buster, your visual example is amazing. Unfortunately, I really don't understand it all. I don't have a medical background, and am trying really hard to learn about everything as much as possible, even though there is so much that I don't understand.

 

Immune modulating means that it suppressing something so that the other stuff can go to work? Is that it?

 

I need to give probiotics.

 

Thanks,

Cristo

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Buster, this is interesting, as i just read something (and even posted it) about how steroids can be detrimental because they do something to BOTH Th1 and Th2????? I think...... WE are looking at possibly doing a steroid taper for dd (just turned 7), who has done a month of augmentin and now about 2 1/2 weeks on zithromax, with not much help. Many, many tics that started in June after a high fever (not strep) followed by 3 months of exposure and 2 illnesses with staph impetigo. Before that, a few tics this spring after walking pneumonia. Before that, ocd a couple years ago (still going on).....numerous respiratory illnesses, pneumonia, fevers, etc.....never took in for strep (my older 3 kids had it all the time).

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If you look at the picture, there are two types of immune responses being shown. Th1 is focused on macrophages (that target extracellular antigens or invaders) and Th2 focuses on B-cell and anti-body production (really for intracellular antigens). The choice of whether to produce Th1 or Th2 is a balancing act influenced by specific combinations of chemicals. What Azithromycin does is bias the balance point so more Th2 is produced than Th1. Curiously progesterone and several other hormones have similar effects.

 

All I was trying to say was that immunomodulating means that a dampening effect is introduced by antibiotics (like azithromycin). These are "suppressive" in a sense in that they lower the number of eosinophils and inflammatory cytokines. This tends to also cause an anti-inflammatory effect too.

 

In terms of T cells there's another form of Thelper cell called Th17 and some antibiotics seem to affect Th17 production as well. I think kimballot posted a nice summary of Th17 in one of her posts.

 

Bottom line, immunomodulating is often a good think in auto-immune disorders -- it means you are breaking a cycle of immune system activation. Let me know if you want more here. I know I posted something about this some time ago and can try to find the old thread.

 

Buster

EDITED to fix Th1 to Th2 typo

Wow...Buster, your visual example is amazing. Unfortunately, I really don't understand it all. I don't have a medical background, and am trying really hard to learn about everything as much as possible, even though there is so much that I don't understand.

 

Immune modulating means that it suppressing something so that the other stuff can go to work? Is that it?

 

I need to give probiotics.

 

Thanks,

Cristo

Edited by Buster

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If you look at the picture, there are two types of immune responses being shown. Th1 is focused on macrophages (that target extracellular antigens or invaders) and Th2 focuses on B-cell and anti-body production (really for intracellular antigens). The choice of whether to produce Th1 or Th2 is a balancing act influenced by specific combinations of chemicals. What Azithromycin does is bias the balance point so more Th1 is produced than Th2. Curiously progesterone and several other hormones have similar effects.

 

All I was trying to say was that immunomodulating means that a dampening effect is introduced by antibiotics (like azithromycin). These are "suppressive" in a sense in that they lower the number of eosinophils and inflammatory cytokines. This tends to also cause an anti-inflammatory effect too.

 

In terms of T cells there's another form of Thelper cell called Th17 and some antibiotics seem to affect Th17 production as well. I think kimballot posted a nice summary of Th17 in one of her posts.

 

Bottom line, immunomodulating is often a good think in auto-immune disorders -- it means you are breaking a cycle of immune system activation. Let me know if you want more here. I know I posted something about this some time ago and can try to find the old thread.

 

Buster

 

 

Hi Buster - first off - thanks for the great picture.

 

I am confused,though, and either I don't understand the picture or you made a typo when posting. From the picture (and my knowledge of zith), Th1 is focused on intracellular and Th2 is focused on B-cells, which produce humoral extracellular antibodies...

 

I do understand that " What Azithromycin does is bias the balance point so more Th1 is produced than Th2."... but I believe that means that it shifts from extracellular to intracellular, which is why azith is so good for mycoplasma and intracellular strep.

 

Is that correct?

Edited by kimballot

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Well, I guess both a typo and too much simplification.... I meant to say more Th2 is produced than Th1. Sigh. Azithromycin suppresses IL-12: http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0667.htm

 

Th1 basically matures into more things that "eat" or "kill" cells. It also tends to have more "inflammation".

 

Th2 matures into activating B-cells that produce antibodies that help signal what needs to be killed (like little flags on the "bad" cells).

 

So technically neither is really intracellular or extracellular. The macrophages, Eosinophils and NK cells will take out either extracellular pathogens or flagged internal cells. I mixed up my Th1 and Th2 in the prior post. It should have said that more Th2 is produced than Th1. Oops. Thank kimballot.

 

Buster

 

 

If you look at the picture, there are two types of immune responses being shown. Th1 is focused on macrophages (that target extracellular antigens or invaders) and Th2 focuses on B-cell and anti-body production (really for intracellular antigens). The choice of whether to produce Th1 or Th2 is a balancing act influenced by specific combinations of chemicals. What Azithromycin does is bias the balance point so more Th1 is produced than Th2. Curiously progesterone and several other hormones have similar effects.

 

All I was trying to say was that immunomodulating means that a dampening effect is introduced by antibiotics (like azithromycin). These are "suppressive" in a sense in that they lower the number of eosinophils and inflammatory cytokines. This tends to also cause an anti-inflammatory effect too.

 

In terms of T cells there's another form of Thelper cell called Th17 and some antibiotics seem to affect Th17 production as well. I think kimballot posted a nice summary of Th17 in one of her posts.

 

Bottom line, immunomodulating is often a good think in auto-immune disorders -- it means you are breaking a cycle of immune system activation. Let me know if you want more here. I know I posted something about this some time ago and can try to find the old thread.

 

Buster

 

 

Hi Buster - first off - thanks for the great picture.

 

I am confused,though, and either I don't understand the picture or you made a typo when posting. From the picture (and my knowledge of zith), Th1 is focused on intracellular and Th2 is focused on B-cells, which produce humoral extracellular antibodies...

 

I do understand that " What Azithromycin does is bias the balance point so more Th1 is produced than Th2."... but I believe that means that it shifts from extracellular to intracellular, which is why azith is so good for mycoplasma and intracellular strep.

 

Is that correct?

Edited by Buster

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