PANDAS & Constant Antibiotics

[LaurieVK]

I'm new to this, but really think my 6-year old ds has PANDAS. I wonder what would happen if he took antibiotics on a continual basis- does this make him immune to them? If he needs antibiotics for something else along the way, would they even work? Would it stop his own immune system from working regularly? (So many questions!)

 

I wonder because it seems like the only way his tics go away is when he's on Augmentin (which is harsh on the stomach, too)... he took 3 rounds of it recently and has been off of Augmentin for two weeks now with no return of the tics, but I worry they will come back! He's a strep carrier.

 

Thanks, in advance, for your shared experiences!

Laurie

[peglem]

Based only on my experience:

 

My daughter is a strep carrier who has been on full time abx for 4 years. She has not developed immunity to them. Her immune system probably was not working properly since before she began abx, but abx work with, not in place of the immune system, so I don't see how they would be able to create a malfunctioning immune system.

 

If your child is PANDAS, the strep carriage thing can be a big problem- its the antibodies created by the immune system that cause PANDAS symptoms, not the strep bacteria, so having the constant presence of the bacteria (whether it is causing an actual infection or not), could stimulate the immune system to constantly produce the antibodies that affect neurological functioning.

[LaurieVK]

I was just going on lay-people who say things when my kids are sick, like, "Just let it run its course... if you keep putting your kid on antibiotics, their own immune systems won't kick in" or "they will become immune to the antibiotic... it won't work when you want it to if you keep putting him on them." Now, these aren't doctors by any means, but I've heard it enough since I've been an adult that I wonder if there's truth to it! lol

 

 

Based only on my experience:

 

My daughter is a strep carrier who has been on full time abx for 4 years. She has not developed immunity to them. Her immune system probably was not working properly since before she began abx, but abx work with, not in place of the immune system, so I don't see how they would be able to create a malfunctioning immune system.

 

If your child is PANDAS, the strep carriage thing can be a big problem- its the antibodies created by the immune system that cause PANDAS symptoms, not the strep bacteria, so having the constant presence of the bacteria (whether it is causing an actual infection or not), could stimulate the immune system to constantly produce the antibodies that affect neurological functioning.

[peglem]

I was just going on lay-people who say things when my kids are sick, like, "Just let it run its course... if you keep putting your kid on antibiotics, their own immune systems won't kick in" or "they will become immune to the antibiotic... it won't work when you want it to if you keep putting him on them." Now, these aren't doctors by any means, but I've heard it enough since I've been an adult that I wonder if there's truth to it! lol

 

 

Based only on my experience:

 

My daughter is a strep carrier who has been on full time abx for 4 years. She has not developed immunity to them. Her immune system probably was not working properly since before she began abx, but abx work with, not in place of the immune system, so I don't see how they would be able to create a malfunctioning immune system.

 

If your child is PANDAS, the strep carriage thing can be a big problem- its the antibodies created by the immune system that cause PANDAS symptoms, not the strep bacteria, so having the constant presence of the bacteria (whether it is causing an actual infection or not), could stimulate the immune system to constantly produce the antibodies that affect neurological functioning.

Well, I've heard those same things from doctors- @ germs becoming immune to abx, but if you corner them on it, the risk of that happening is small. Consider, too, that the majority of livestock in this country is given constant abx in their feed, which I would think would contribute way more to abx resistance than an individual kid here and there.

[airial95]

I think the risk isn't that the child becomes resistant to the abx, but that the bacteria does - that's why they don't just pump abx through our water supply! But like peglem said, that's a rare thing. It would take a vast majority of the population to be on a long term antbiotic for that to happen - but as abx get older, there are more resistant strains of yuck out there (think about just plain old penicillin).

 

If your child gets sick while on abx, they likely need to be switched to a different abx. For example - when my son was on azith (prophylactic dose) he got strep 2x, but it was an azith resistant strain - changed the abx, infection taken care of.

[EAMom]

I wonder because it seems like the only way his tics go away is when he's on Augmentin (which is harsh on the stomach, too)... he took 3 rounds of it recently and has been off of Augmentin for two weeks now with no return of the tics, but I worry they will come back! He's a strep carrier.

 

 

My ped thinks that Azith. is easier on the stomach than Augmentin. Azith. also has a long 1/2 life so you can give it once daily.

 

It is definitely possible to clear a strep carrier with the right antibiotic (Azith. or Clindamycin are good for clearing carriers)...but they can become re-infected with exposure and carry again at a later date.

[pandasstl]

No one wants their child on antibiotics but for us, he is just not functional right now without them. It is not a difficult choice for us, the difference with him on antibiotics--we just can't go back and neither can he. Azith did not work for him--850 of augmentin 2x per day does. We give him probiotics and after 4 months of augmentin, he has had absolutely no sign of stomach upset--he's actually a bit constipated. We will probably pursue a 2nd HD IVIG, we have a phone consult w Dr. K set for Nov 29th.--we may try to wean off after 5-6 months after his next IVIG. He has told us (he is 7) that his whole year of being 6 was a waste because of Pandas and he can't have it back. I won't let him say that about another year--antibiotics or not.

[KaraM]

My understanding, too, is that the risk of a particular strain becoming resistant to antibiotics comes from not completing a dose properly. So, if you stop taking the abx before the infection is gone, then the bacteria starts to grow again and becomes more immune to the abx. Does that make sense? Have others heard that as well.

 

As for the stomach issues, have you been giving your child probiotics as well. They help replace the good bacteria that the abx are also helping to kill.

At a minimum, yogurt with live active cultures.

Some will say make sure the live active cultures do not include strep cultures....those that begin with "s." on the ingredient list. I think kids sensitivity to this varies. So you either experiment or play it safe... Kefir is a yogurt drink that I think does not have any s. live cultures.

You could also add a supplement such as Culturelle (that is the one Dr. B. recommended to us).

 

If you search on "probiotics' on this forum, you should see a lot of discussion.

 

Kara

 

I was just going on lay-people who say things when my kids are sick, like, "Just let it run its course... if you keep putting your kid on antibiotics, their own immune systems won't kick in" or "they will become immune to the antibiotic... it won't work when you want it to if you keep putting him on them." Now, these aren't doctors by any means, but I've heard it enough since I've been an adult that I wonder if there's truth to it! lol

 

 

Based only on my experience:

 

My daughter is a strep carrier who has been on full time abx for 4 years. She has not developed immunity to them. Her immune system probably was not working properly since before she began abx, but abx work with, not in place of the immune system, so I don't see how they would be able to create a malfunctioning immune system.

 

If your child is PANDAS, the strep carriage thing can be a big problem- its the antibodies created by the immune system that cause PANDAS symptoms, not the strep bacteria, so having the constant presence of the bacteria (whether it is causing an actual infection or not), could stimulate the immune system to constantly produce the antibodies that affect neurological functioning.