Pfeiffer Test Results for NancyE?

[Guest Guest_Jennifer]

NancyE,

 

Haven't seen you post in a while and was wondering how the tests came back from Pfeiffer and if you have been pleased with them so far?

 

 

Jennifer

[NancyE]

Jennifer,

 

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this. Really busy these days! As I posted briefly before, the results from my son's tests showed two main problems: zinc deficiency and elevated histamine, which translates to undermethylation. Serotonin, dopamine and other transmitters require methyl groups in their formation, so undermethylated people generally are low in these. Zinc is important for many functions, including inducing metallothionein, a metal metabolism enzyme, which is also a key antioxidant. His zinc was moderately low, but his histamine was twice what they consider acceptable.

 

Many problems associated with these problems fit our situation: anger episodes, OCD tendencies, perfectionism, competitiveness.

 

His copper level wasn't high, but it doesn't seem to be regulated correctly. The ratio of free unbound copper is too high. I think that means too much is circulating in his body.

 

It appears that he may have a problem with metal metabolism. The treatment is supposed to raise methyl formation and induce metallothionein. The prescription includes:

 

Vitamin C

Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)

Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (precursor to B6)

Methyl B12 Sublingual (a methyl donor)

Cal/Mag

B-complex

Vitamin A

Zinc

Vitamin E

 

They said I can continue the fish oil and inositol he takes.

 

I asked the nurse why they don't just give him methionine for his undermethylation, which is mentioned in their info packet. She said they've had really good luck with the Methyl B12 sublingual, which is supposed to help convert homocysteine to methionine. Now, I just read Claire's post about B12 and folic acid being bad for undermethylated people. I don't know how to reconcile that. I did ask about folic acid, because it's in every B-complex I've seen, and I read that folic acid isn't good for undermethylated people. The nurse didn't seem to think it was a problem, at least not the 400mcg that comes in the B-complex he's taking.

I don't know, it still makes me wonder.

 

He's been taking the whole program for a little over a week. One big change is that a number of little tics came back, which I haven't seen in quite a while. I wouldn't call them severe by any means, but the change is very obvious to me, seeing as how they were basically gone. I know you can get worse before you get better, so I talked to the nurse and she said he may be detoxing too fast, which isn't uncommon. She suggested halfing the dose for a few weeks and then building back up. The tics may be a little better in the last few days, hard to say.

 

No big change in mood yet, still having some extreme reactions. I don't really expect an overnight improvement - I know it can take months. But I'm hopeful.

 

The big question for me is, why is he deficient in vitamins and minerals needed for proper functioning? I wondered about gluten problems and absorption problems. They did suggest a gluten/casein-free diet for several months as the best way to see if there is a connection. I've heard from others here about what a difference it made in mood problems, and I wonder if that's because once the gut heals, the body absorbs all it needs from normal amounts of vitamins.

 

I have to say, we have not been able to make the leap to totally gluten-free yet. We've been pretty much dairy-free for years, but BREAD is a big problem. I've been slipping in substitutes for other things, but I have not been able to find a bread they will eat peanut butter and jelly on! Everything I've bought pre-made has been horrible. I tried a mix in the bread machine that I thought was pretty good, but they didn't like it. I made a type of french bread from scratch that wasn't bad, but it was a lot of work and not really the right size for sandwiches.

 

Has anyone actually found a good gluten-free bread? I'd like to give this a good try. Thanks for any ideas.

 

Nancy

[Claire]

Nancy,

 

My son takes sublingual B12, is this different from sublingual Methyl B12? (I have read about that on the Pfeiffer site.

 

I know, it is tough to reconcile their dos and don'ts for under/over methylated. I will bring it up at our visit. I should thank you for posting a bit ago re the B complex. I was giving individual B vitamins and realized that I could save pills that way--though man Twinlabs is a big pill! Which brand do you use?

 

My son is taking all the vitamins that yours is, plus more to get rid of the mercury.

 

Which bread mix did you try in the bread maker? We did Gluten-free pantry sandwich mix and my son liked it a lot. Is this what you tried? However, we spent a few weeks without bread first so he didn't have a direct taste comparison. Now he eats Food for Life Brown Rice Bread--I personally don't like it though. I agree with you in general on the pre-made breads, what a joke. We used the bread mix above for pizza dough and cinnamon rolls. The cinnamon rolls (though sugar isn't great) might ease them into the taste. And Pamela's pancake mix is as good as any wheat pancakes we have had.

 

EnerG has gluten-free pretzels too.

 

Do you do no milk? Honestly, if you could just go one week gluten/casein free, I think you might see a big difference--or know that it may not make a difference. The easiest path is to run the www.enterolab.com test for gluten/casein. (no doctor's signature needed). It is a VERY sensitive test--if they pass it, I doubt they would have any issues with those foods.

 

Claire

[Guest Guest_Jennifer]

NancyE,

 

Thank you so much for replying. You gave me some ideas on questions to ask. We will be going next week, hope it will all be worth while. Our son too has been tic free for quite some time, but the emotional outbursts are just awful some days.

 

Haven't found a good gluten-free recipe yet. I checked out the book "Special Diets for Special Kids" it seems like it has some promising recipes, haven't tried them yet.

 

Good luck.

 

Jennifer

[Claire]

Nancy/Jennifer

 

Hi Nancy,

 

I checked and my son's sublingual B-12 includes the methylcobalamin (sp) in it, which he takes on alternate days. So really they are fundamentally on the same program.

 

http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/Monogr...lcobalamin.html

"Methylcobalamin donates methyl groups to the myelin sheath that insulates nerve fibers and regenerates damaged neurons. In a B12 deficiency, toxic fatty acids destroy the myelin sheath but high enough doses of B12 can repair it. "

 

By the way, on the gluten-free board, they posted that 25% of those with gluten sensitivities had a B12 deficiency.

 

Since I don't know about under/over methylation (from Caz' post, sounds more like he is undermethylated...?), I only do the same folate in the B complex--actually ony 200 mcg/day since he takes one cap (=1/2 dose). He used to have a folate deficiency, don't know if that makes him more likely to be overmethylated (it is so confusing?) which is why I want the histamine test.

 

So we are staying away from SAMe, inositol and the others that are questionable depending on histamine level, and doing less of the folate/B12 than I might otherwise do.

 

Jennifer, good luck with your appointment!

 

Claire

[NancyE]

Hi all,

 

I wanted to mention a few other things I thought of. First of all, thanks for the gluten-free pantry reference, Claire. I haven't seen it at Whole Foods, but I may order it from the web site. I tried Bob's Red Mill mix, which I liked but they didn't.

 

ALso, in one of these threads there was some discussion of the basophil count test v. the histamine test, and the hair test for mercury and other metals. Pfeiffer did do the basophil count test AND the histamine test. His basophil count was not high, but his histamine was very high.

 

As far as the hair tests, they were a little confusing to me at first. The only metal he was high in was aluminum. This meant he was excreting a lot of it. The nurse explained that even though mercury, for example, was low in the hair, that might mean that his body is holding onto it and NOT excreting it properly. She said that in 4-6 months at his follow-up appointment when they run the tests again, it may show more metals being excreted, which means that his body is is working better at getting rid of it. So the first tests may not actually show a problem.

 

However, certain essential elements, such as calcium and magnesium, were high in the hair. This may mean that he's not absorbing them properly, and too much is being excreted.

 

I understand the theory behind it, but it seems like quite a balancing act. I'm curious to see if there are any big changes when he's tested again.

 

I am definitely going to try gluten-free for at least a week or two, but I've heard it can take several months to really see a difference. I think I asked the nurse about the enterolab test and she had never heard of it - basically said that I'd have to decide if it was worthwhile to me. They seem to think there's no really accurate test out there, except going gluten-free for several months. Claire, did your son show a sensitivity to gluten from the test?

 

Yes, I understand how hard those emotional outbursts can be, Jennifer. We had another doozy this morning. I'm trying even harder to stay totally calm and remember it's not really me he's mad at. He's even admitted that in his calm moments. I had a conversation with a friend whose son doesn't have the issues my son has, but still has some good meltdowns, as all kids do at times. We compared what bad mothers we are, according to our sons. She had just heard what a bad mom she was because she told her son to blow his very stuffy nose! I had a good laugh over that, especially because I've heard it myself!

 

Nancy

[Claire]

Nancy, I just sent you a PM.

 

I have heard the same thing about the hair tests. As for Enterolab--to me it was worth the $99 to not remove gluten unless he tested positive. It is a highly sensitive test.

 

Claire

[Guest Guest_Jennifer]

Claire/NancyE,

 

Our son was tested for gluten and he is highly allergic to wheat and spelt gluten, he seems to do o.k. with the other glutens. We were gluten free for two months last spring. The initial withdrawl phase was not pleasant. We aren't folowing the diet anymore (we sold our house moved and will be moving again when are new place is finished) life is too complicated right now to really follow it like we were. I can tell you though that after the withdrawl period, he was a totally different child...for the better. I even had family members comment on the positive changes. I know that gluten is a BIG issue for him, but in our culture it is so hard to avoid. I really hope the MT promotion therapy will correct this issue as well.

 

I'll be glad when we do the methylation testing so we know for sure what supplements to use or to avoid. He fits the description of both over and under methylation which is what makes it all so confusing.

 

Jennifer

[Claire]

Jennifer,

 

I didn't know (or remember this about your son). Hmmm. Well when I confirmed with Pfeiffer today for our appointment next week, they asked: What is the primary reason for the appointment?

 

I said: "My primary reason is for the MT promotion so that that my son can have wheat and milk again without issues." [by the way, my second reason would be more stamina. I think this immune system suppression impacts his stamina.]

 

With LCD screens, he can basically have unlimited screen accesss these days--(He had 4 hours worth today as a sick day). The lifestyle diet issue is not going to be livable for him over the long term.

 

Claire

[NancyE]

Jennifer,

 

That's really interesting about the gluten. What kind of test did you do for that? How long was the withdrawal period, and how soon did you see a change? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so curious about this connection, and I don't know how long I can keep us gluten-free to test it. Thanks.

 

Nancy

[Guest Guest_Jennifer]

NancyE,

 

The test we did was from US Biotek Lab it is called a

Standard Food Panel:IgG&IgG4/IgE.

 

IgG is Delayed onset raectins while IgE is immediate. The glutens showed a delayed onset reaction.

 

It seemed like the first week was really bad then the reactions kind of tapered off, after just one month we saw quite a bit of improvements. He wasn't hungry all the time, moods were great and he seemed like he was more "with it" instead of being in his own little world. Ideally we need to gluten-free again, I wish it weren't so hard.

 

Jennifer

[Guest Guest_Jennifer]

NancyE,

 

The test we did was from US Biotek Lab it is called a

Standard Food Panel:IgG&IgG4/IgE.

 

IgG is Delayed onset raectins while IgE is immediate. The glutens showed a delayed onset reaction.

 

It seemed like the first week was really bad then the reactions kind of tapered off, after just one month we saw quite a bit of improvements. He wasn't hungry all the time, moods were great and he seemed like he was more "with it" instead of being in his own little world. Ideally we need to gluten-free again, I wish it weren't so hard.

 

Jennifer

[Guest Guest_NancyE]

Jennifer,

 

Thanks so much for the information. It's so amazing the effects foods can have on our bodies. I need to look into testing for gluten. You're right, sticking to the gluten-free diet is hard. We haven't managed to start it 100% yet.

 

Are you the one who also used NMT for your son? We used it to help his allergies, and supposedly it can help with almost any problem, including gluten issues. I'll have to ask our naprapath about it.

 

Thanks again.

 

Nancy

[NancyE]

Hi everyone,

 

Just wanted to add a note about our most recent experiences in our quest for better health! First of all, thanks to everyone for all the FASCINATING info about the enzymes, methyl production, etc. It's really beginning to make sense to me (if I read it over and over!).

 

We are following the Pfeiffer treatment plan for my son - no big improvements yet - in fact, the moods/rages seemed to get more frequent and intense. I'm not entirely surprised, as I know it can get worse before better, but it's made for some very difficult days.

 

I decided to go back to our naprapath to use NMT to see if we're on the right track. I was also very curious about gluten being a problem. (I've posted before about NMT - if you're not familiar with it you can check the website - neuromodulationtechnique.com - I've become a pretty firm believer in it by now.).

 

She muscle-tested my son and asked his body if the Pfeiffer treatment will help with his problems. It said yes. I wanted to know how long before we see some results so she asked and it said in 2-3 months. She asked if gluten was acting as a toxin in his body - it said yes. Interestingly, she has asked before if he was allergic to gluten and his body said no. She explained the differences between allergy, sensitivity and toxic reactions - it's important you're asking the right question to get the right answer.

 

She asked if we could use NMT to help speed up the process and it said yes. So she went through some pathways and treated his body to help clear the toxins. She also said, now I"m trying to remember correctly, I believe his glutamate receptors were too sensitive, so she lowered that. I THINK it was the receptors that gluten acts on. She also said even if we can get his body to react properly to gluten it's still important to first give it a break to let the gut heal. She said we should really go for 2 months without gluten, which is also what Pfeiffer had said. His body did say he wouldn't have to do it forever. We've gotten closer to gluten-free, but I will now make a determined effort to stick to it completely for 2 months. We discussed it with my son and he seems to understand why, and he's agreed to do it. I actually found a whole store that sells gluten-free products near my home, and I think he'll eat the Gluten-Free pantry sandwich bread I made. I also thought the Kinnickinnick (sp?) bread was good, but he wasn't as keen on it.

 

She also asked if yeast was a problem and his body said no. It did say aluminum and copper were a problem, which fits with his tests, and she asked his body to help clear those as well.

 

I guess this may sound kind of strange to some people, but I've really come to believe in the power of the body to heal itself, and NMT seems to work. I hope we have some good results to share soon.

 

Claire - sorry you weren't thrilled with your Pfeiffer visit. I'm not thrilled with all aspects of them either, but we did have a great nurse at our initial visit. It think we actually saw a P.A., not a doctor, but we did have more time with her. I did call once with a question and spoke to a different nurse who wasn't as personable, so maybe it depends on who you get. I hope you get some helpful information.